A World Without Limits
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Mize said:Anand? Surely you jest! Anandtech has always been such a completely objective site !!!
[snork]
Mize
Did I detect a note of sarcasim in that [snork]....... 8)
Mize said:
Heh, you are right, and I bet that most of them are ATi users and that this time round will wait and see until they fork out for a shiney new ATi R300.
You see, alot of my friends have Ti-4200's, and with the issues they have with games (i.e none) only good feeling about the card come from them.
Now, for me owning an ATi 8500, I have the odd issue here and there, nothing major but for alot of less PC centric people, odd issues are big issues.
Anyway, enough of that, im getting peer pressure to get an Nvidia card, so thats the main reason why im going NV30 at xmas
Oh, and because my buddy and god JC says that Nvidia are really great, then well, another reason to go Nvidia. Woah, wanna talk about religion? EPIC/DE sux0rs, ID r0x0rs !
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Geek_2002 said:
Just to solidify this argument AnandTech IS bias, nvidia didn't recieve any negative remarks to the fact that no one did recieve these particular drivers for months afterwards. Even though end users were to get them by the end of that week. In other words they would have been full of bugs that hadn't been worked out. But no mention of that little fact in there either. Just sayin.
Geek
Hellbinder
Banned
you guys this endless nvidia propaganda gets SOOOOOO old... This is why i end up overeacting so much. Day after day after day of totally biased, unjustified comments, opinions, attacks from teh Nvidia camp.....
Its getting worse and worse every day from more and more sites...
On the contrary I have a GF4 ti 4200 and FSAA locks Anarchy online, in fact my computer reboots the about 15 seconds after enableing any form of FSAA. This problem persists through the last couppleof drivers and even the new 29.80's
Also Madden 2002 has horrid menu corruption with Quincunx enabled.. there are several other little issues like this. Why do you people persist in this total falacy that Nvidia cards have NO proplems ever..... I have had far less troubble with my 8500..
And thats a FACT.
Its getting worse and worse every day from more and more sites...
On the contrary I have a GF4 ti 4200 and FSAA locks Anarchy online, in fact my computer reboots the about 15 seconds after enableing any form of FSAA. This problem persists through the last couppleof drivers and even the new 29.80's
Also Madden 2002 has horrid menu corruption with Quincunx enabled.. there are several other little issues like this. Why do you people persist in this total falacy that Nvidia cards have NO proplems ever..... I have had far less troubble with my 8500..
And thats a FACT.
It'll be interesting to see what rumors were tue and what were bogus, as well as how the competition (namely Nvidia) reacts. I'm not sure what they'll do when R300 is officially announced, but I'm guessing they'll release newer drivers to sites benchmarking the cards when it is released.
Personally, if neither of these cards end up offering the same level of programmability that 3Dlabs is offering (although I'm guessing they will at least match it), I'll have to go with a P10 based card (even if it ends up being slower than them in games). I'd love to mess around with one of those...
Personally, if neither of these cards end up offering the same level of programmability that 3Dlabs is offering (although I'm guessing they will at least match it), I'll have to go with a P10 based card (even if it ends up being slower than them in games). I'd love to mess around with one of those...
Ailuros said:
Exactly! What annoys me, however, is the # of sites who regurgitate, some seemingly with glee, PR/marketing claims, thereby perpetuating half-truths and misinformation.
LittlePenny
Regular
[edit]Didn't seem as funny do me when I was fully awake. Anyway, I shouldn't get involved in verbal(can that be said on the internet?) attacks.[/edit]
I do wonder how close nVidia is to launch. We'll see. Regardless, here's what I hope "World Without Limits" means:
That the R300 has no program-length limits, supports branching at every stage, and basically has enough features to emulate Renderman in some HLSL or other (though I don't expect the performance to be remotely good).
I also hope that the R300 has:
1. Fixed Smoothvision, but this time with multisampling!
2. Comprehensive anisotropic filtering
3. 64-bit floating-point color
Granted, I also hope that the NV30 has these things, and it is looking like the NV30 will be superior (In features, at the very least), given the supposed die process/# of transistors, and a few comments I've seen thrown around.
That the R300 has no program-length limits, supports branching at every stage, and basically has enough features to emulate Renderman in some HLSL or other (though I don't expect the performance to be remotely good).
I also hope that the R300 has:
1. Fixed Smoothvision, but this time with multisampling!
2. Comprehensive anisotropic filtering
3. 64-bit floating-point color
Granted, I also hope that the NV30 has these things, and it is looking like the NV30 will be superior (In features, at the very least), given the supposed die process/# of transistors, and a few comments I've seen thrown around.
Doomtrooper
Veteran
Chalnoth said:
Pretty bold statements for a vaporware chip, I will enjoy watching your dismay..very much so
Why? You like blurry 45-degree angle surfaces?
Regardless, it is entirely possible to do aniso of the superior quality of the GeForce4, but with less of a performance hit. We'll see any of the next-gen cards can pull it off. (And by superior quality, I mean on a per-degree basis...I hope that next-gen hardware supports more than 16-degree aniso...like 32 or higher degree...).
Regardless, it is entirely possible to do aniso of the superior quality of the GeForce4, but with less of a performance hit. We'll see any of the next-gen cards can pull it off. (And by superior quality, I mean on a per-degree basis...I hope that next-gen hardware supports more than 16-degree aniso...like 32 or higher degree...).
I agree, using an adaptive method á la ATI is definitely the right way to go, but like you said, the implementation would need to be improved in the future. ATI is definitely in a good position to do that, as they've had experience with their current implementation already and can build on that, but I doubt their competitors are ignoring the issue either. Right now its still not too hard to find situations where the adaptive aniso's quality suffers compared to the full scene aproach, hopefully next generation's hardware won't...Bambers said:
As if 45° surfaces were the most common thing there is to 3D gaming. I'd guess they make up less than 5% of all game polygons when combining all titles from the last 2 years...Chalnoth said:
As for the "propaganda", even the complaining is getting old! There's just as much anti/pro-ATI propaganda being spread as there is anti/pro-Nvidia, depending on where your personal opinion is you'll only notice one more than the other. I know its sad but you gotta learn to just ignore the mindless mumblings of the trolls. It does majorly suck though that some supposedly informative sites actually try to use some of this "propaganda" to attract attention to themselves by casting bad light mainly on ATI.
All anisotropic implementations are adaptive. That is the very nature of anisotropic filtering.
It really depends on the type of game. Any flight sim will show this issue very often. Some situations with Q3's curved surfaces may show it pretty well. Terrain as that seen in Morrowind will have problems.
Regardless, as with all problems, I don't feel the frequency of the issue is the problem. The noticeability is.
It really depends on the type of game. Any flight sim will show this issue very often. Some situations with Q3's curved surfaces may show it pretty well. Terrain as that seen in Morrowind will have problems.
Regardless, as with all problems, I don't feel the frequency of the issue is the problem. The noticeability is.
Chalnoth said:
Eh, seeing as you dont own the card, you are talking with zero rational basis here.
You have no clue "how noticeable" it is, having never experienced it.
And why in gods name do you want MS?
It SUCKS!
SSAA gives less aliasing than MS.
MS is to SS as ATI's aniso is to nVidias.
Let see - Your problem with ATI's aniso is, it doesnt lookk as good as nVidia's, even though its faster.
Why dont you have the same problem with nVidias MSAA?
Its faster than ATI's, but doesnt look as good.
Seems to me you have vendor-itis.
Chalnoth,
It isn't any 45 degree angle in 3d but is a texture on a specific 45 degree angle and take it for its worth..... it is rare in the big picture.
I have never noticed this effect on curved surfaces just the specific 45 degree angle and this limitation is well worth the x16 filtering detail offered in my mind. We all differ and there is no blanket views when the subject is 3d, imho. You talked about blurry textures right? I like texture detail as far as the eye can see....and in most cases it offers that with a small hit. I can't make out any difference in texture detail from nVidia's x4 to x8 AF in screenshots but you don't see me offering snide posts toward nVidia's hardware or insulting their AF ability. However, I do have problems with Pr, hehehe. 3d is a trade-off in my mind...... gain in important areas to some that you notice easily and you may lose in some areas that are rare in the big 3d picture.
Another thing...... you don't even have the product and yet you always seem to present a snide tone towards ATI. At least have the common courtesy to own the product and test it in a multitude of titles before offering views if possible. Just a suggestion.
On the R-300:
I have no idea what to really expect but considering the comments offered by JOHN CARMACK and nVidia trying everything they could do have their named product show-case Doom3 and simply came up short. Speculation is it was a higher-clocked GeForce4 and maybe with some future development drivers. Also, Anand's comments were surprising about UT:2003 as well. Considering these are two of the most popular titles to be released on the gaming horizon.... certainly not bad news for ATI.
It isn't any 45 degree angle in 3d but is a texture on a specific 45 degree angle and take it for its worth..... it is rare in the big picture.
I have never noticed this effect on curved surfaces just the specific 45 degree angle and this limitation is well worth the x16 filtering detail offered in my mind. We all differ and there is no blanket views when the subject is 3d, imho. You talked about blurry textures right? I like texture detail as far as the eye can see....and in most cases it offers that with a small hit. I can't make out any difference in texture detail from nVidia's x4 to x8 AF in screenshots but you don't see me offering snide posts toward nVidia's hardware or insulting their AF ability. However, I do have problems with Pr, hehehe.
3d is a trade-off in my mind...... gain in important areas to some that you notice easily and you may lose in some areas that are rare in the big 3d picture. Another thing...... you don't even have the product and yet you always seem to present a snide tone towards ATI. At least have the common courtesy to own the product and test it in a multitude of titles before offering views if possible. Just a suggestion.
On the R-300:
I have no idea what to really expect but considering the comments offered by JOHN CARMACK and nVidia trying everything they could do have their named product show-case Doom3 and simply came up short. Speculation is it was a higher-clocked GeForce4 and maybe with some future development drivers. Also, Anand's comments were surprising about UT:2003 as well. Considering these are two of the most popular titles to be released on the gaming horizon.... certainly not bad news for ATI.
