A Summary of the Huge Wii Thread

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Well, except for the Dreamcast (where they backed up Sega.net), no console that's used gamespy has had particularly compelling online.

Still, if Gamespy works as an alternative to friend codes for 3rd party games (just do things PC style), that may not be so bad if it's used since friend codes are a horrible idea.
 
Well, except for the Dreamcast (where they backed up Sega.net), no console that's used gamespy has had particularly compelling online.

Still, if Gamespy works as an alternative to friend codes for 3rd party games (just do things PC style), that may not be so bad if it's used since friend codes are a horrible idea.

what other consoles have gamespy really been involved with? i know they had a deal with nintendo for gamecube, but i'm not really sure you can blame that console's online abortion on gamespy. it was more of nintendo's choice. and IIRC there were some PS2 games that used gamespy, but that was also a developer's choice, and not something sony was pushing, was it?

i don't think any console has actualy taken advantage of the things gamespy could offer. just using it for matchmaking if anything.
 
what other consoles have gamespy really been involved with? i know they had a deal with nintendo for gamecube, but i'm not really sure you can blame that console's online abortion on gamespy. it was more of nintendo's choice. and IIRC there were some PS2 games that used gamespy, but that was also a developer's choice, and not something sony was pushing, was it?

i don't think any console has actualy taken advantage of the things gamespy could offer. just using it for matchmaking if anything.

It's not Gamespy's fault, that's for sure, but it does show a serious lack of commitment from the company itself.
It was excusable as plan B on the Dreamcast, especially given how Gamespy was pretty much the only option for PC online gaming at the time. (ah, shortly after the days of quakespy)
But Gamespy has been a major option on Gamecube, PS2, and the DS, and on all of them online never really took off beyond a few token efforts. (ok, not one game on the cube even used gamespy, but nintendo offered it as an option, pretty much the only option they did offer) I believe Sony had some sort of deal with them as well on the Ps2.

Anyhow, the existence of gamespy on the console and the continued use of friend's codes tells that the Wii's online isn't even going to be close to Xbox Live, if it even makes it past its first year.
 
Given the state of Wii online play, and the corresponding huge success of the console, I think it is crystal clear just how important the quality of the online gaming experience is to the sales of a console.
 
Given the state of Wii online play, and the corresponding huge success of the console, I think it is crystal clear just how important the quality of the online gaming experience is to the sales of a console.

Yeah okay, Nintendo is still going to make a lot of money, but how does this benefit you or me?
 
Just read some update on Halo3 development.
Bungie states they are doing the following:

In Halo 3, we simulate Rayleigh and Mie Scattering by creating “virtual†pollution and air and passing “real†light through it for a realistic effect... Rayleigh Scattering relies on the principle that the distorting particles be smaller than the wavelength of the light...

At its very simplest level, your see Rayleigh scattering when you look from about 45 degrees to straight up, and you see Mie scattering when you look straight at the horizon. Naturally the further you can see unobstructed, the more pollutants will enter that distance, and the more haze is created. Unless you live in Los Angeles, in which case you can probably detect Mie scattering by looking across the street.

You can get an idea of what I’m talking about by watching the E3 trailer. Across the huge artifact that the Chief discovers in that trailer, you see the air start to haze over, as tiny distant particles change the color, quality and transparency of the air. When you turn off our simulation of Rayleigh and Mie scattering, the distant objects pop out and any sense of distance or scale is ruined. You might as well be looking at an object the size of the dish in Ascension.

The need for realistic distance drawing is vital in Halo 3, because of the sheer scale of our maps. The distant mountains in that E3 trailer are absolutely real geometry. You can detach the camera, fly out to them (which would take about fifteen minutes even with our camera’s “gas†button held down) and see that they’re even textured properly. This is a function of the nature of the Halo 3 engine, and testament to the 360’s horsepower. It means we don’t have to “cheat†as much with fancy skyboxes and obfuscation.
http://www.actiontrip.com/link.phtml?http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12310

Sounds cool, I look forward to see what kind of 'atmosphere' ;) this will create for the game.

But that got me to thinking, is what Bungie doing something that only this new Generation consoles can do and if so, based on what we know about the Wii, can we see this type of effect on future Wii titles? Any thoughts?

An older article from ATI:

If we assume a constant density atmosphere and low camera and target objects, we can
simplify the general equation and render scenes with light scattering in real-time. Vertex and
pixel shaders available in the RADEONâ„¢ 9500/9700 family of products can implement the
following equations:
(equations)
L is the input color, s is the distance to the camera, and is the angle to the sun.
In the vertex shader we compute using the following equations:
(equations)
where R is the Rayleigh coefficient,
M is the Mie coefficient, g is Henyey/Greenstein phase
function eccentricity, and sun E is the irradiance of the sun. All that’s left for the pixel shader is
the multiplication and addition as described in Eq. 19.
http://ati.de/developer/dx9/ATI-LightScattering.pdf
 
How would it be transparently compatible with Gamecube then, especially at such a low clockspeed? I think the CPU is almost certainly nearly identical to the Cube CPU. They shrunk it, and then went as high in clock as such an old architecture could comfortably go.

I've said many times from insider info it's not the CXE nor a gekko shrink. They used a better 750 cpu, beefed the cache, and my recollection as to why it's 729mhz and not the max of the chip was because of heat issues not that they couldn't push the chip.
 
I've said many times from insider info it's not the CXE nor a gekko shrink. They used a better 750 cpu, beefed the cache, and my recollection as to why it's 729mhz and not the max of the chip was because of heat issues not that they couldn't push the chip.

Exactly it's based on the 750CL which can go up to 900mhz. If you look at the pdf file for it that I have posted all over the internet lol... it says that the suggested speed for the chip is 700 mhz. Nintendo went with 729mhz..even though it could have went up to 900mhz. It was about balance.

The 750 CL is a new chip. It's a low cost high performance chip.

It's not a GC CPU die shrink.
 
It's still a 750... Walks like a 750, talks like a 750, so it's a 750. Meaning it's performance characteristics are pretty much the same as Gekko +clock&cache.
 
It's still a 750... Walks like a 750, talks like a 750, so it's a 750. Meaning it's performance characteristics are pretty much the same as Gekko +clock&cache.
Not really. A 750FX for example is about 30% - 40% faster than a 750CX at the same clockspeed as far as I remember, due to optimizations and a bigger L2-cache. That was years ago. The GX-series has further optimizations, and the new CL-series (Broadway?) is even more optimized...
 
F5 included some nice light scattering in RSII.

Thanks for the heads up, I guess that answers my question.
Did a little reading and I had no idea how good this game looked!
And running on 60fps.


Factor 5 knows how to use the GameCube hardware like no other. Not even the amazing artists at Nintendo's own Retro Studios (responsible for Metroid Prime) can pump out visuals like those found in Rebel Strike and arguably even those of Rogue Leader. Every graphical effect that the GameCube can perform has been included and even others that we never knew existed. One, being a technique created by Factor 5 known as “Light Scattering" a graphical effect that projects light across an entire area, instead of just concentrating it into one spot.

PGC: What graphical effects are being implemented in Rebel Strike that we haven't seen before in Rogue Leader?

JE: We have a much more detailed landscape engine, which was really needed for the ground levels. On top of the pure ground, though, we also came up with a completely new outdoor lighting technique. In very simple terms, we are simulating how light gets bounced around in the atmosphere as it hits dust, the ground, and other bits in the atmosphere. This so-called light scattering gives our outdoor levels a big jump in visual realism. We are using it also for the co-op Rogue Leader levels set in atmospheres and they look so much better. Bespin is quite a stunner and finally looks close to the movie shots. We were never happy with the way Bespin turned out in Rogue Leader. Another landscape detail that did get addressed is the water. In Rogue Leader we used a simple texture, but this time we are simulating water physics and applying these in realtime with complex shaders.

Our indoor-engine also has nifty tricks up its sleeve: We simulate glows in a much more movie-like fashion, and we have quite accurate shadow-casting. One very cool detail is real-time IK (Editor’s note: Inverse Kinematics are a way to generate character animation.), which enables the main characters to step realistically onto anything on the ground – dead stormtroopers, for example. It just kicks out one more of the annoying non-realistic video game stereotypes of characters not taking steps correctly and other details in the environment.

Finally – of course we think our forest and vegetation engine is quite nice. Endor was the first thing we tackled and everybody was surprised with what we were able to squeeze out of the GameCube.

JE: We will have the whole game, including the Rogue Leader missions, on one disc. And that does also include 30 minutes of DVD-quality movies in our proprietary DivX format. Rebel Strike is the first opportunity for Star Wars fans to see many favorite scenes from the original trilogy in a digital video format, and it makes the wait for the DVDs certainly tougher.

I really wish these guys would take a stab at the Wii to see what they can squeeze out of it

rebel_strike.jpg
 
Not really. A 750FX for example is about 30% - 40% faster than a 750CX at the same clockspeed as far as I remember, due to optimizations and a bigger L2-cache. That was years ago. The GX-series has further optimizations, and the new CL-series (Broadway?) is even more optimized...

The die is about the size of my pinkie finger nail. It is based on an arch that is like 8 yrs old or so. And it is clocked at a whoppin' 730 MHz. It undoubtedly is a very cheap, very refined, and very low power CPU. But with regards to performance, let's not get too excited here. Heh.

I really wish these guys would take a stab at the Wii to see what they can squeeze out of it
Factor 5 makes tech demos, basically. Great proofs of concept. I own all of their Cube and N64 games. They are very pretty but man are they really actually pretty bad games. I don't think I've finished any of them.

IMO their best game may be Indiana Jones. They just ported the title over and made it look awesome for what N64 could do. But LucasArts actually made the game.

I'd rather see what Amusement Vision could do, personally. With a racer. Or Capcom. Or Acclaim (too bad they're gone, XGIII rocked).
 
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The die is about the size of my pinkie finger nail. It is based on an arch that is like 8 yrs old or so. And it is clocked at a whoppin' 730 MHz. It undoubtedly is a very cheap, very refined, and very low power CPU. But with regards to performance, let's not get too excited here. Heh.
That's not the point. The x86-arch is old as hell as well. My point is that it's BS to assume that a modern 730MHz PPC would only be 50% faster than Gekko. A 750 CL is quite a bit faster than a G4 at the same clockspeed for most operations (except for VMX, but Broadway has a SIMD-unit and custom matrix functions). I think that Broadway is at least twice as powerful as Gekko - still not much, but much better than many people seem to expect...
 
That's not the point. The x86-arch is old as hell as well.
If you want to compare a 386 to a Core 2 Duo, say, (they are compatible) I think you perhaps are missing a few details. Like die size/density, say.

My point is that it's BS to assume that a modern 730MHz PPC would only be 50% faster than Gekko. A 750 CL is quite a bit faster than a G4 at the same clockspeed for most operations (except for VMX, but Broadway has a SIMD-unit and custom matrix functions). I think that Broadway is at least twice as powerful as Gekko - still not much, but much better than many people seem to expect...
Die size is rather telling. Gekko was already a beefed up CPU due to the added SIMD functions (rather basic from what I've read). If Hollywood was truly a serious improvement, it would be bigger than it is methinks. Instead it fits rather well with what you'd get with a 180 nm to 90 nm shrink. This has been discussed several times in the Wii GPU thread. I'm sure it has some tweaks but nothing major.
 
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