A Generational Leap in Graphics [2020] *Spawn*

[HLJ]

Yes i think it's the best looking cross gen game at the moment. Not trully next gen, but a good taste.

Are you talking PC next gen (currently 3000 series) or console next gen (aka PC last gen (RTX 2060 performance))?

 

[Karamazov]

next gen graphics in general.
RT is part of it.
When in one or two years we see RT combined with some other tech like nanite in UE5, or the next iteration of Frostbite, can't wait.

 

[BillSpencer]

I remember people thinking that "Metro:Last light" with PhysX had the best graphics ever

 

[PSman1700]

Yes i think it's the best looking cross gen game at the moment. Not trully next gen, but a good taste.

Well in that sense there are no next gen games for a long while in your eyes. Il side with df’s finding that its the next gen difference/true next gen leap.

 

[chris1515]

Just because something is open world doesnt mean it can put out unlimited resources everywhere. The game is believable and pretty good as an RPG. Because you are comparing it with another game that is designed differently you spot the areas where it doesnt do them as well as that other game. The fact that is open world makes it even more complicated actually. Any game that involves controlling a character can be open world. From that point the priorities define where and how the resources will be put. GTA has always focused on freedom of causing havoc, destruction and experimenting with the realism of a real city. Cyberpunk isnt about that. Same reason why it doesnt give you the same sandbox freedom as Just Cause which barely provides anything remarkably dense as a GTA or Cyberpunk environment or the social variety in its environment in comparison, but it goes nuts with what you can do with physics and your weapons.
HZD again focuses on a linear story telling and fighting robots in nature. It could have been a linear game like Uncharted but the open world came as a beautiful bonus that added variety that makes the game better than if it didnt and doesnt need to be as ultra realistic and dense as GTA.
Not all games with open world elements need to put resources on the same places and compete directly.
HZD was never trying to be Witcher, just as MGS never tried to be Just Cause, or Cyberpunk never tried to be GTAV. Cyberpunk's world is already super dense in exterior and interior with much more complicated assets which is a super great achievement.

HZD has quest and an open world. I think you did not watch or read any postmortem about the game. They knew the open world is a weakness but they did not have time and money to pay attention to it and they focus on other part of the game. But HZD was a big commercial success and they can iterate with a bigger budget. They did not have the living world team for HZD they talk about in the job offer and the open world will look like more like a world not a gigantic arena like someone at GG told it. Everyone have a budget the one of Rockstar are higher and they have more time to work on a game but like every team GG or CDprojekt iterate and they improve.

GG did many presentation about the game and the different system:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=horizon+zero+dawn+GDC

See at least this one, I saw and read all presentation about the game GDC, SIGGRAPH or Digital Dragons or documentary.

Have a believable world is not copy the Witcher, it is part of being an open world. When they release the game, they were knowing this part was not great but they don't have unlimited ressources and time. The engine is ready and they will iterate on it and the first one was a big commercial success, they have a bigger budget and this part will be better, probably not as good as RDR2 but better and the third part will be better than horizon 2 and so on. And they have an SSD, the streaming system will be better probably more visible on Horizon 3 because it will not be a cross gen game.

https://boards.greenhouse.io/guerrilla/jobs/4681827002

The Living World Team is a multi-disciplinary group of designers, programmers, animators and artists that work tightly together to bring our villages, cities, cultures and civilization to life. The team collaborates with our writers, tech & tool developers, game direction and art direction to push the liveliness of our world to new heights.

As a Principal Animator, you breathe life into our worlds. For you, animation is not just about the key-frames and poses of the hero characters. Your canvas is bigger; you work on the scale of streets, cities… entire worlds. For you the world is a character in itself.

I disagree with people hoping Cyberpunk 2077 can be as good as GTA 5 on the open world part but maybe it will be the case in the next iteration of Cybepunk. Cyberpunlk 2077 gives the opportunity to destroy a car and this is less realistic than GTA 5 if they don't want to be compared to it, make the action not possible. But They will iterate like everyone and improve this part of the game in the next cyberpunk game or DLC. And they know it too, they will have time and budget to improve this for next game.

next gen graphics in general.
RT is part of it.
When in one or two years we see RT combined with some other tech like nanite in UE5, or the next iteration of Frostbite, can't wait.

You can probably forget Nanite and triangle based RT al least this gen. triangle based RT is part of Unreal Engine 4 but they don't use it on Unreal Engine 5.

EDIT: It would be great to have RT reflection in UE5.

 

[Shortbread]

While older videos, but I think we should appreciate the gorgeousness of Flight Simulator.

IMHO, it's the most graphically impressive game of 2020, hands down.

 

[Karamazov]

UE5's lumen does a great job for GI and shadows. Then RT at least for reflections will certainly be supported. Should be too much for new consoles to handle, but PCs should do just fine, and by the time of release next generation of graphics cards should come out.

 

[Rootax]

Do we know if UE5's lumen will be in the end faster than (triangle based) RT ?

"Lumen uses ray tracing to solve indirect lighting, but not triangle ray tracing," explains Daniel Wright, technical director of graphics at Epic. "Lumen traces rays against a scene representation consisting of signed distance fields, voxels and height fields. As a result, it requires no special ray tracing hardware."

I would like my RT hardware to be used...

 

[BillSpencer]

Do we know if UE5's lumen will be in the end faster than (triangle based) RT ?

"Lumen uses ray tracing to solve indirect lighting, but not triangle ray tracing," explains Daniel Wright, technical director of graphics at Epic. "Lumen traces rays against a scene representation consisting of signed distance fields, voxels and height fields. As a result, it requires no special ray tracing hardware."

I would like my RT hardware to be used...

Don’t look at +2000 released games this year then

 

[Rootax]

Don’t look at +2000 released games this year then

Of course

I mean, of course, if the engine is doing RT. Like, I remember the Neon Noir demo from Crytek. It was all about "software" ray tracing, but what the point where the speed is not here at all...

 

[chris1515]

Of course

I mean, of course, if the engine is doing RT. Like, I remember the Neon Noir demo from Crytek. It was all about "software" ray tracing, but what the point where the speed is not here at all...

Neon noir is hybrid voxel/triangle RT, for little object triangle based RT is used. And RT hardware can be used for other things than triangle based RT.

 

[BillSpencer]

Of course

I mean, of course, if the engine is doing RT. Like, I remember the Neon Noir demo from Crytek. It was all about "software" ray tracing, but what the point where the speed is not here at all...

yeah I agree. They did software ray tracing on crysis on last generation consoles at like.. 30fps, but it looked pretty terrible

 

[chris1515]

UE5's lumen does a great job for GI and shadows. Then RT at least for reflections will certainly be supported. Should be too much for new consoles to handle, but PCs should do just fine, and by the time of release next generation of graphics cards should come out.

Nanite produce tons of polygons having the full scene for the BVH into the RAM, I think the demo is probably impossible to have RT on consoles and PC. Nanite reduce the geometry to 20 millions of polygons for a scene in the demo to render only what is visible on screen but with RT you need all the geometry into the memory.

 

[PSman1700]

And they have an SSD

SSD tech is already put to great use in 2077 on pc. The game is basically designed around ssd.
Perhaps even MM and demon souls use it.

Still, i dont think an ssd can replace gddr6 ram, not even plain old DDR4 or even GPU power. Theres latency to be considered too. Maybe a optane like solution, but even thats far from gddr6.

Nanite produce tons of polygons having the full scene for the BVH into the RAM, I think the demo is probably impossible to have RT on consoles and PC. Nanite reduce the geometry to 20 millions of polygons for a scene in the demo to render only what is visible on screen but with RT you need all the geometry into the memory.

I think you hang too much on this ue5 demo. Its a demo, just that.

 

[chris1515]

SSD tech is already put to great use in 2077 on pc. The game is basically designed around ssd.
Perhaps even MM and demon souls use it.

Still, i dont think an ssd can replace gddr6 ram, not even plain old DDR4 or even GPU power. Theres latency to be considered too. Maybe a optane like solution, but even thats far from gddr6.



I think you hang too much on this ue5 demo. Its a demo, just that.

Spiderman MM or Demon's souls probably don't push the SSD to its limit. For DS remake we have a number 3 to 4 GB/s of compressed data this is more than PCIE 3 SSD when they stream data and they use oodle kraken netween 5 and 6.5 GB of uncompressed data. And a SSD is not a replacement for RAM but to be able to have anything you need into RAM and not limit your rendering because you aren't able to load the assets you need in memory like with a HDD.

Nanite is based in micropolygon rendering because of the size of assets on disk we will have less polygons than on the demo but much more than in other type of rendering.

 

[HLJ]

next gen graphics in general.
RT is part of it.
When in one or two years we see RT combined with some other tech like nanite in UE5, or the next iteration of Frostbite, can't wait.

This demo you people keep talking about?
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo runs happily on current-gen graphics cards and SSDs | PC Gamer

I qoute:
"
his escalated after an interview with an engineer from Epic China (which has since been taken down) revealed the demo seen running on the PS5 ran just as well on a laptop. In fact the PC reportedly ran the demo better, with the PS5 managing 30fps at 1440p while the laptop hit 40fps at the same resolution from within the editor itself. "

 

[HLJ]

SSD tech is already put to great use in 2077 on pc. The game is basically designed around ssd.
Perhaps even MM and demon souls use it.

Still, i dont think an ssd can replace gddr6 ram, not even plain old DDR4 or even GPU power. Theres latency to be considered too. Maybe a optane like solution, but even thats far from gddr6.



I think you hang too much on this ue5 demo. Its a demo, just that.

And you don't even need a NVME drive...a "regulear" SSD does just fine.

Meanwhile, I can see that I play a bit differently than most people:

 

[Karamazov]

RT hardware is used in games without RT.

This demo you people keep talking about?
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo runs happily on current-gen graphics cards and SSDs | PC Gamer

I qoute:
"
his escalated after an interview with an engineer from Epic China (which has since been taken down) revealed the demo seen running on the PS5 ran just as well on a laptop. In fact the PC reportedly ran the demo better, with the PS5 managing 30fps at 1440p while the laptop hit 40fps at the same resolution from within the editor itself. "

that proves my point, next gen graphics are coming sooner than later and will blow us away

 

[HLJ]

RT hardware is used in games without RT.


that proves my point, next gen graphics are coming sooner than later and will blow us away

Not of the PS5 is going to be the base..30 FPS at 1440p...I wonder what the 3000 series would run that demo at.
But the pulling of that interview triggers my "something smell rotten"...seems like someone didn't like the PS5 being upstaged...bad PR I guess for "Net Gen consoles".

 

[snc]

This demo you people keep talking about?
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo runs happily on current-gen graphics cards and SSDs | PC Gamer

I qoute:
"
his escalated after an interview with an engineer from Epic China (which has since been taken down) revealed the demo seen running on the PS5 ran just as well on a laptop. In fact the PC reportedly ran the demo better, with the PS5 managing 30fps at 1440p while the laptop hit 40fps at the same resolution from within the editor itself. "

not everybody understand what is capping at stable 30fps