A comparison of PS3 and 360 as media players

[BadTB25]

That's right, but what people want is that they play all formats on their own, not having to use a computer.

Exactly!!!!

And while they're at it, get rid of the Fat32 formatting requirement for external/flash drives. It seems that it takes a lot longer to copy my movies over to an external HDD in Fat32 as compared to the default format.

I don't understand why they need the requirement. Does anyone have any insight?

 

[jlippo]

No, this BD-spec does not support that.

A screen not requiring glasses will need more information than that to work properly. I guess we should not expect such screens aimed at the mass market for another 5-10 years now, given this BD spec.

Why would it need more information?
BD Spec already has images for a both eyes.

If one would want to create high resolution light field I would agree, but there is plenty of information for passive stereo displays.

 

[Crossbar]

Why would it need more information?
BD Spec already has images for a both eyes.

If one would want to create high resolution light field I would agree, but there is plenty of information for passive stereo displays.

I am thinking of lense based 3D displays and in theory they would only need one image for the left and one for the right eye if you have a narrow view angle, but as I understand it you need more images if you want to allow viewers to move their heads and allow multiple viewers, which would be a requirement if you want to sell it to consumers.

I think this image illustrates what I mean.

Maybe you are thinking of some other display technology?

Edit: here is more information of Alioscopys implementation, they are using 8 cameras.

The 8 cameras are separated from each other by the average distance between the left and right eye. Typically this is taken as 2.24” (5.69 cm):

 

[jlippo]

I am thinking of lense based 3D displays and in theory they would only need one image for the left and one for the right eye if you have a narrow view angle, but as I understand it you need more images if you want to allow viewers to move their heads and allow multiple viewers, which would be a requirement if you want to sell it to consumers.

That is basically what I meant with light field, which is quite different thing from the normal stereo images.
Problem with this is that it is hard to give same stereo image for all viewers, which is requirement for movies and such.

For proper stereo image 2 images is all you need and currently the solution for narrow field of view is camera which tracks users eyes and adjusts the display accordingly.

 

[Crossbar]

That is basically what I meant with light field, which is quite different thing from the normal stereo images.
Problem with this is that it is hard to give same stereo image for all viewers, which is requirement for movies and such.

It would certainly give much more of a 3D experience but why couldn´t movies evolve in that direction, just like they are evolving in to stereoscopic 3D at the moment? It would give them more of a "theater" (!= cinema) experience. Just give us 8 layer BDs and better compression in a couple of years. :smile:

For proper stereo image 2 images is all you need and currently the solution for narrow field of view is camera which tracks users eyes and adjusts the display accordingly.

That is hardly what I would call a "passive display", but anyways I guess that could be achieved, but I can see tonns of problems that must be solved before it will be a viable technology. Such as max number of viewers, people moving around, people sitting in front of each other, like one in the sofa and one on the floor in front of them.

The physical screen itself would need tonns of pixels as well if you are not prepared to reduce the horizontal resolution, but that is a problem it shares with the other type of passive 3D display that I described. I can see why no CE manufacturer is actively pursuing either of these technologies at the moment as far as I know. The technology using glasses is much simpler and cheaper, but who knows in another 5-10 years.

 

[Asher]

A truckload of details and tidbits about Blu-ray from Blu-Con 2.0:
http://www.digitalbits.com/#110509







About 3D TV + Blu-ray:



The link has more.

Here's a truckload of reality re: Managed Copy and Bluray...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...managed-copy-hardware-support-nonexistent.ars

Blu-ray discs get Managed Copy; hardware support nonexistent
After four years in the oven, "managed copy" is done—and boy, is it a stinker.

"Managed copy" has been slouching its way toward our living rooms for years now, but the technology that can make backup copies of films will finally come to all Blu-ray discs on December 4, 2009. Unfortunately, no Blu-ray player yet has the ability to make one of these copies, rendering the whole scheme pretty pointless until consumers purchase the new players (available at some point in 2010) that are capable of contacting an authorization server over the Internet, verifying that this particular disc is allowed to make a copy, making the copy, then slathering the whole thing in a heavy marinade of DRM.

Oh, and no one said that these managed copies have to be free, either.

...

 

[patsu]

Old news:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1355813&postcount=423

Managed Copy will be here. BDA cannot ignore portable players (or rather the portable player market).

Article would be much more interesting had Ars interviewed the Blu-ray manufacturers to get a status update. No one has done that yet, and they may miss the opportunity.

EDIT: The DigitalBits report above have more info on Blu-ray digital copy if you are interested:

Studios report that Digital File/Copy redemption rates are in the strong double digits. Research shows that 50% of people using Digital File are watching on laptops or portable devices. Some are also using the Digital File as a "backup" copy to the Blu-ray, or for standard-def viewing situations.

I specifically asked about Digital File expiration dates: The studios responded that when they see download/authorization activity after the expire date has passed, they're simply extending the expire date indefinitely. Fox had this happen with Family Guy: Blue Harvest and their response was to just extended the date.

Managed Copy is still being readied and is expected to launch fully in the next few months.

Warner has noticed that Digital File redemption rates are slightly higher on standard BD/DVD releases (19%) versus special edition (more elaborate) BD/DVD releases (13%).

Managed Copy should follow the existing proprietary BR digital copy mechanisms (It will probably replace and standardize them in the long run, technically speaking).

Some more loose Digital Copy info is in the link.


Ultimately, if consumers and manufacturers demand a copy mechanism, then it will happen. Initial implementations may suck, but someone will do a good one, and be rewarded. Otherwise, people like joker454 will have AnyDVD anyway.

 

[Asher]

Old news:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1355813&postcount=423

Managed Copy will be here. BDA cannot ignore portable players (or rather the portable player market).

Article would be much more interesting had Ars interviewed the Blu-ray manufacturers to get a status update. No one has done that yet, and they may miss the opportunity.

Not sure you understood the point of the article. They're not saying Managed Copy will never come, just that no players can currently play it and the thing has been in development for four years. There's also no promises the copies will be free, which is a slap in the face considering they were free with HD DVD.

Ultimately, if consumers and manufacturers demand a copy mechanism, then it will happen. Initial implementations may suck, but someone will do a good one, and be rewarded. Otherwise, people like joker454 will have AnyDVD anyway.

Again, the question is not IF or WHEN we'll get it, but there's issues with how it is being implemented. I suggest you re-read the article with that in mind.

 

[patsu]

Not sure you understood the point of the article. They're not saying Managed Copy will never come, just that no players can currently play it and the thing has been in development for four years. There's also no promises the copies will be free, which is a slap in the face considering they were free with HD DVD.

Managed Copy was not completed on HD DVD too. As you said yourself, it's been in development for 4 years. It's the same thing. The studios couldn't promise free copies to everyone. They also didn't say they will charge per copy. The issue is the studios themselves may not have full rights to allow anyone to always make free copies.

Given that we already have "free" digital copies on Blu-ray today (for about a year ?), I don't see why Managed Copy would be different. For movies that they cannot allow the users to copy for free, then they will have to work around it (or not include Managed Copy for that movie). e.g., What happens if I borrow a BR movie from the library, and then copy it to my HDD before returning ?

Again, the question is not IF or WHEN we'll get it, but there's issues with how it is being implemented. I suggest you re-read the article with that in mind.

Already read the article. The whole piece is a monologue. Until they include proper comments, explanations and endorsed approaches from industry players, it's just a rant. I appreciate it for keeping the pressure on the studios, but it does not necessarily paint the full picture.

For one, the most recent delay is caused by the manufacturers, not the studios. The manufacturers have probably stockpiled their Christmas player inventory in the channel. Talking about unreleased hardware would not be in their interest. We will likely hear more from them early next year, when they want to introduce new SKUs again.

 

[patsu]

Someone should change the thread title (or move the Blu-ray discussion elsewhere) ^_^

There was a BD-forum in Taiwan yesterday.

Global demand for Blu-ray Disc (BD) players and movie discs is expected to steadily increase as average retail prices for players will drop from US$193 currently to US$77 in 2012 while blank media will drop from US$5 to US$1.50.

Sales volumes of BD movie discs in the US, Europe and Japan during the first three quarters of 2009 increased 183%, 200% and 180% respectively from the same period in 2008

...

The growing demand for BD players and movie discs will drive costs of BD pick-up heads and chipsets to fall and thus production costs of PC-use BD optical disc drives will drop

Source: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20091120PD202.html

 

[joker454]

Global demand for Blu-ray Disc (BD) players and movie discs is expected to steadily increase as average retail prices for players will drop from US$193 currently to US$77 in 2012 while blank media will drop from US$5 to US$1.50.

You can already get blank 25gb bd-r's for $1.50 each from Frys. I know because I recently bought 75 of them Generic brand though...but they seem to work fine.

 

[patsu]

I am waiting for 50Gb ones. I have 20-30 32Gb VMs to archive.

 

[Asher]

I'd just like to rant about how worthless Bluray digital copy is.

I bought a new, factory-sealed Star Trek bluray from Amazon.ca. When I use the code on its insert in iTunes, it tells me another iTunes account has already entered it. I don't even know who to go to about this, so I sent an email to Amazon.ca and Apple Support and tried to send one via Paramount's "digital copy support form", but those guys insult me by having a text form to enter a lengthy complaint (as I did), only to COMPLETELY IGNORE it when you hit 'submit' and show you a generic Apple.com knowledge base article which essentially tells you "If it says it's already entered, someone already entered it!"

I did some research and it turns out even if it DOES end up working for me, it won't work for what I wanted. I wanted to burn a copy of the movie to DVD so when I go home to visit my parents I could watch it with them (they haven't seen it), but apparently that's not allowed. That's bull, I paid good money for this, I'll do what I want.

I'm tired of getting burned for being legal.

 

[patsu]

The current Blu-ray digital copy mechanisms are proprietary. The one you are talking about belongs to Paramount Pictures (http://www.paramountdigitalcopy.com/support/). It is used for their DVD releases too (and probably requires a Windows PC to handle the DRM).

The official Managed Copy is not out yet. If the studios can't get their act together when Managed Copy comes out, I hope the masses start to promote AnyDVD everywhere.


EDIT: By the way, Amazon is having a Black Friday Blu-ray sale now. Some titles are $7.99.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...1553851&pf_rd_i=12917411&tag=panandscathed-20

 

[joker454]

EDIT: By the way, Amazon is having a Black Friday Blu-ray sale now. Some titles are $7.99.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...1553851&pf_rd_i=12917411&tag=panandscathed-20

Awesome, somehow I missed that one. Thanks

 

[Asher]

They have a video game sale too.

Tales of Vesperia for 360 was $9.99...Left 4 Dead 2 $34, etc.

 

[Squilliam]

Is the idea of Blu Ray burnable media going to really catch on to nearly the extent of DVD/CD writeable media? It seems we've come full cicle from Zip drive -> CD -> DVD -> Flash USB pendrive/external HDDs as the way I see it. Does anyone see it any differently?

 

[Asher]

The only practical use I see for bluray media is for "backing up" movies for playback on Bluray players...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I guess it may, perhaps, have a use for archiving? Dual layer DVDs really haven't taken off, so there doesn't appear to be much interest in large optical backups though. Then again, dual layer is still only 8GBs. Anything larger needs HDD or flash. If people have the option for 25/50 GB discs, will they want to store away large, old data instead of put in on HDD?

 

[Arwin]

Is the idea of Blu Ray burnable media going to really catch on to nearly the extent of DVD/CD writeable media? It seems we've come full cicle from Zip drive -> CD -> DVD -> Flash USB pendrive/external HDDs as the way I see it. Does anyone see it any differently?

I use an external drive a lot for vmwares and such, but however big they always get full, and they don't last forever either - invariably these things tend to fail. I think backing up to a DVD or BD will last a lot longer in that respect.

I'll definitely be getting a BD drive for one of our PCs for backing up in the near future.