~%90 will play these games on regular TVs. Which has better

[randycat99]

I think we all need to back up a few steps here and take note that font size is a key issue here? People who make media aren't going to spontaneously start using 10 and 12 pt font sizes just because hdtv's are here (and even it being an "hdtv" isn't going to be a good justification for using such "small" fonts). The minimum fonts they use will still have to account for the notion that users will be viewing it on a wide range of display sizes and at medium to far viewing distances. This pretty much dictates using pretty much the same larger font sizes we have been viewing all along. My earlier comment was only to suggest that maybe some developers may be tempted to push the lower bounds in font size a bit, so we may experience an adjustment phase. However, for the most part, we will still be viewing large font sizes just like always, because the developers, show producers, etc. want you to be able to read the text easily regardless of your viewing circumstances.

 

[Dural]

What I hate is you walk into a mass commercial outlet like Walmart and they have all these "HD TVs" and NONE of them mention what resolution they support. And after checking around they seem to label some of their Standard Digital TVs as HD TVs which is not right.

While it is above most consumers heads, the goal should be to familiarize them. Right now in the US all they would need to do is: HD TV 720p and HD TV 1080i.

That would take minimal effort and let consumers at least have a BASIC idea of WHAT they are buying.

Not that I would EVER buy a tv at Walmart, but people do all the time. I hate the idea that they are overpaying and/or not getting what they THINK they are getting.

Walmart had a Sanyo 30" CRT HDTV that is quite popular on AVS (over 1800 posts in this thread). It has a built in tuner, hdmi, two component, and can display 480p, 720p, and 1080i and only cost ~$600. They've recently replaced it with a Panasonic with similar features that costs ~$675.

 

[Ty]

Walmart had a Sanyo 30" CRT HDTV that is quite popular on AVS (over 1800 posts in this thread). It has a built in tuner, hdmi, two component, and can display 480p, 720p, and 1080i and only cost ~$600. They've recently replaced it with a Panasonic with similar features that costs ~$675.

Yep, that's a great set (the Sanyo) I was recommending to people over here before. Has some minor issues but what TV doesn't?

 

[London Geezer]

Walmart had a Sanyo 30" CRT HDTV that is quite popular on AVS (over 1800 posts in this thread). It has a built in tuner, hdmi, two component, and can display 480p, 720p, and 1080i and only cost ~$600. They've recently replaced it with a Panasonic with similar features that costs ~$675.

See that's the kind of amazing deal we need in Europe/UK.

In the end, we don't need the fancy Sony or Pioneer or whatever else super expensive sets, what is badly needed here are those cheap HDTV which are fully compatible with 720p/1080i and are pretty much future proof for the next 10 years.

Guess it's gonna happen next year over here... Or maybe i'm being a little too optimistic...

 

[Nightz]

Being in the UK I have no reason to upgrade to HD, they they dont even broadcast tv in HD. And my old skool tv plays games just fine

 

[London Geezer]

Being in the UK I have no reason to upgrade to HD, they they dont even broadcast tv in HD. And my old skool tv plays games just fine

Obviously, but come next year, SKY will start their HD programmes, and X360 will also come out before long. Those are 2 very good reasons.
Then you have HDDVD players (though i'm not sure when they're coming out in the UK), then eventually PS3...

I'm waiting for prices to come down, althought i'm tempted every day to "buy now for the future"... It's just better to wait till the sets get cheaper and better.

 

[Nick Laslett]

Being in the UK I have no reason to upgrade to HD, they they dont even broadcast tv in HD. And my old skool tv plays games just fine

You are wrong.

You a missing out on 576p and 480p progressive scan output from DVD players.

You are also missing out on 480p progressive scan in video games. Nearly all Xbox releases are 480p and many notable PS2 and GC games are also.

Progressive scan games have double the resolutions you are used to seeing on a basic interlaced TV.

If you have not upgraded to a progressive scan capable TV, you are in a good place.

Next year would be a good time to upgrade to a 720p capable set.

I am stuck with an expensive 4 year old 480p plasma. It will be a while bfore I can afford to upgrade.

 

[PARANOiA]

Being in the UK I have no reason to upgrade to HD, they they dont even broadcast tv in HD. And my old skool tv plays games just fine

You are also missing out on 480p progressive scan in video games.

Not in PAL countries they aren't.

 

[London Geezer]

You a missing out on 576p and 480p progressive scan output from DVD players.

And EDTV can handle that just fine.

You are also missing out on 480p progressive scan in video games. Nearly all Xbox releases are 480p and many notable PS2 and GC games are also.

Not in the UK unless it's a chipped Xbox. Or GC.

Progressive scan games have double the resolutions you are used to seeing on a basic interlaced TV.

We know the difference between progressive and interlaced signals

If you have not upgraded to a progressive scan capable TV, you are in a good place.

Progressive scan TV doesn't necessarily mean HDTV. In fact, the vast majority of plasma displays sold in the UK now are EDTV and not HDTV.
Crap i know, but that's the truth.

Next year would be a good time to upgrade to a 720p capable set.

Yep, which is what the guy was saying. Wait till next year.

I am stuck with an expensive 4 year old 480p plasma. It will be a while bfore I can afford to upgrade.

Many other brits feel like you.

 

[Sandwich]

Being in the UK I have no reason to upgrade to HD, they they dont even broadcast tv in HD. And my old skool tv plays games just fine

You are also missing out on 480p progressive scan in video games.

Not in PAL countries they aren't.

Yeah, all those fancy HD resolutions will make 0 difference for europeans and australians, unless M$ or sony finally learn there's such a thing as PAL.
All these borked NTSC to PAL ports we get here; it's not funny anymore.

 

[London Geezer]

Being in the UK I have no reason to upgrade to HD, they they dont even broadcast tv in HD. And my old skool tv plays games just fine

You are also missing out on 480p progressive scan in video games.

Not in PAL countries they aren't.

Yeah, all those fancy HD resolutions will make 0 difference for europeans and australians, unless M$ or sony finally learn there's such a thing as PAL.
All these borked NTSC to PAL ports we get here; it's not funny anymore.

Well, although there are 720p50 and 1080i50, i'm pretty sure that they'll just use the american and japanese 720p60 and 1080i60, cause all HDTVs here support those standards. Apart from one single model which is PAL exclusive, but it's a piece of crap and whoever buys it deserves all the trouble they get from it, including stuttering etc.

 

[Sandwich]

Well, although there are 720p50 and 1080i50, i'm pretty sure that they'll just use the american and japanese 720p60 and 1080i60, cause all HDTVs here support those standards. Apart from one single model which is PAL exclusive, but it's a piece of crap and whoever buys it deserves all the trouble they get from it, including stuttering etc.

What I'm afraid of is poor PAL versions like we get now. Some european versions that support only PAL50 letterboxed or do NTSC if you switch to 60Hz.
The xbox, the GC and the PS2 can all do PAL60, but developers are just lazy. The xbox does have some HDTV titles, but not for us PAL users.

I just hope this situation doesn't continue with xbox360 and PS3.

I'd already be content if all M$ and sony made PAL60 support mandatory for all developers, like the Sega did for DC, .... or atleast an option to do NTSC in all games for all of us with multiscan TVs.
Better would be PAL full screen 576i locked at 50FPS supported in all games.
HDTV for those who have it, would be great, but that's probably too much to hope for.

 

[London Geezer]

What I'm afraid of is poor PAL versions like we get now. Some european versions that support only PAL50 letterboxed or do NTSC if you switch to 60Hz.
The xbox, the GC and the PS2 can all do PAL60, but developers are just lazy. The xbox does have some HDTV titles, but not for us PAL users.

I just hope this situation doesn't continue with xbox360 and PS3.

I'd already be content if all M$ and sony made PAL60 support mandatory for all developers, like the Sega did for DC, .... or atleast an option to do NTSC in all games for all of us with multiscan TVs.
Better would be PAL full screen 576i locked at 50FPS supported in all games.
HDTV for those who have it, would be great, but that's probably too much to hope for.

MS and Sony will not take the HD resolutions out of PAL X360 and PS3.
About PAL conversions, i think they will be handled like current PAL Xbox/GC games, where the vast majority support PAL60 as standard AFAIK.

 

[Sandwich]

About PAL conversions, i think they will be handled like current PAL Xbox/GC games, where the vast majority support PAL60 as standard AFAIK.

I hope not. Take Halo. Sure it supports PAL & PAL60, but if you choose PAL60 the gameplay stutters badly for some reason.
If you pick PAL50 the movies stutter, probably because those are recorded 30Hz for NTSC.

Lazy! Especially since halo was the top xbox title. I wonder if the US NTSC version gets equally low frames/sec in halo like we do.

 

[London Geezer]

I hope not. Take Halo. Sure it supports PAL & PAL60, but if you choose PAL60 the gameplay stutters badly for some reason.
If you pick PAL50 the movies stutter, probably because those are recorded 30Hz for NTSC.

Lazy! Especially since halo was the top xbox title. I wonder if the US NTSC version gets equally low frames/sec in halo like we do.

Well i'm not sure about Halo's differences with normal vs PAL60 versions since i've never tested it that way, but it was a launch title afterall, and not the most complete game either, if you know what i mean.
I'm quite sure 99% of Xbox games play just fine at PAL60, or i'd have heard something about it.

 

[fulcizombie]

I have a questionj.I own a pretty good 4:3 tv that can display NTSC60Hz(mind you that i'm from Europe).Will the next gen games be full screen on my tv,if i choose such a display,or will they be letterboxed(like RE4) no matter what??

 

[London Geezer]

I have a questionj.I own a pretty good 4:3 tv that can display NTSC60Hz.Will the next gen games be full screen on my tv,if i choose such a display,or will they be letterboxed(like RE4) no matter what??

Letterboxed games are like that because the devs chose so.

A good PAL conversion should be fullscreen with no slowdowns, however it largely depends on how much time and effort the devs put into the conversion.


Some games are just letterboxed.

 

[fulcizombie]

I have a questionj.I own a pretty good 4:3 tv that can display NTSC60Hz.Will the next gen games be full screen on my tv,if i choose such a display,or will they be letterboxed(like RE4) no matter what??

Letterboxed games are like that because the devs chose so.

A good PAL conversion should be fullscreen with no slowdowns, however it largely depends on how much time and effort the devs put into the conversion.


Some games are just letterboxed.

Nope you didn't get my question.I am not talking about bad NTSC-to-PAL conversions(like in the Snes era),i play all the games on 60Hz NTSC and they are great.

My question is whether next-gen gen games will actually support a full-screen 4:3 mode or will they all display ONLY a 16:9 image??

 

[London Geezer]

My question is whether next-gen gen games will actually support a full-screen 4:3 mode or will they all display ONLY a 16:9 image??

Well you didn't ask that the first time did you!!

To be honest, i'm not sure. They could have the option for 4:3 and 16:9 screens like today's games, but i really don't know. We'll have to wait and see.
I can tell you, making games exclusively widescreen would be a mistake since there are still a lot of people with normal 4:3 TVs, the majority in fact.

 

[function]

I hope not. Take Halo. Sure it supports PAL & PAL60, but if you choose PAL60 the gameplay stutters badly for some reason.
If you pick PAL50 the movies stutter, probably because those are recorded 30Hz for NTSC.

Lazy! Especially since halo was the top xbox title. I wonder if the US NTSC version gets equally low frames/sec in halo like we do.

Well i'm not sure about Halo's differences with normal vs PAL60 versions since i've never tested it that way, but it was a launch title afterall, and not the most complete game either, if you know what i mean.
I'm quite sure 99% of Xbox games play just fine at PAL60, or i'd have heard something about it.

I think PAL Halo must have been hard wired to run at 50hz or something. It's been years since I looked at it in 60hz mode, but I assume that in 60hz mode it just drops updates to keep the speed the same overall, causing stutters. The only other Xbox game I've ever seen somehting like this happen on is Sonic Mega Collection. Get this:

The games, even in 60hz mode, run slow and bordered like the PAL originals, but with constant stuttering at 60hz that drives you mad. On top of this the game adds some kind of mental blurring to the image, presumeably to replicate using a shitty RF cable, that actually makes the game look worse than it did on a Megadrive with an RF connection.

In short, it's been made to replicate the sub-par, messed up PAL versions of the game we used to get, but with a new layer of additional injuries and degredations.

It's hard not to really hate Sega. They deserve everythig they get.[/ot rant]

But aside from that, everything on Xbox I've ever seen suports 60hz just dandy. The best console for pro-scan lovers in Europe was the Dreamcast with it's VGA support. Although European publishers often broke VGA compatability before releasing, presumeably simply becuase they could.