30 fps unplayable on OLED, alternatives?
- Thread starter ZebMacahan
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ZebMacahan
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For anyone interested, I tried A Plague Tale Reqiuem in 40 fps mode (120 hz) and it looked smoother than 30 fps, but it still made my head hurt
This is what my TV indicates when you select that option (I've been moving things around and had to take the picture at that angle 'cos my monitor was in front of my TV):
I had Judder Reduction at 0 and Noise Reduction off 'cos of testing, but I always set Judder Reduction at max (10) and Noise Reduction is enabled on it too and I can tell you I don't notice any lag but 30fps are super bearable. I also have BFI enabled but without BFI 30fps still look acceptable as long as I have Judder Reduction at 10.
As for Noise Reduction, I've usually read it's meant to help avoiding image artefacts in video content, but what the TV says is different, so..., I always enable it.
My first HDTV I bought in 2008 was a Panasonic and it didn't have a game mode, but had amazingly low input lag for that time with motion interpolation enabled, around 30 ms. The only problem was the motion interpolation was always forced and you couldn't turn it off, and it introduced artifacts.
Then again, maybe that's why I remember all the console games from that era as smooth with great motion resolution 
.But AFAIK Panasonic is not the only one, Samsung introduced motion interpolation in game mode four years ago and called it Game Motion Plus (in contrast to Auto Motion Plus). Back in the day, Rtings had this to say:
Last time I checked the QD-OLED line still has it so I wonder whether this could be regarded as an advantage compared to an LG OLED, as the latter doesn't let you use motion interpolation with low input lag. Then again, Rtings said it looks worse than Auto Motion Plus, so I wonder... any thoughts from Samsung owners?
ZebMacahan
Regular
This is what my TV indicates when you select that option (I've been moving things around and had to take the picture at that angle 'cos my monitor was in front of my TV):
I had Judder Reduction at 0 and Noise Reduction off 'cos of testing, but I always set Judder Reduction at max (10) and Noise Reduction is enabled on it too and I can tell you I don't notice any lag but 30fps are super bearable. I also have BFI enabled but without BFI 30fps still look acceptable as long as I have Judder Reduction at 10.
As for Noise Reduction, I've usually read it's meant to help avoiding image artefacts in video content, but what the TV says is different, so..., I always enable it.
Thanks for the info. Judder reduction on my TV above 3 gets unplayable. Maybe its an OLED thing?
ZebMacahan
Regular
It was so long Samsung intruduced this? I read some where it was more recent? Maybe the newer top models has a better version of it?
I wish I still had my plasma =/ I dont know if it had any motion fx on but 30 fps games worked great.
it could well be. My panel is QLED -VA-. It looks good though contrast wise can never compete with an OLED, when looking HDR videos the results are still impressive when Local Dimming is set to High specially.
Btw, are there any 38" OLED TVs that have a 21:9 mode available? My TV has 21:9 resolutions available in game mode and that feature is excellent for people who want to have 3840x1600 -I have that resolution available- like I've seen in a recent Digital Foundry video.
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well, I found out that these settings are enabled on the TV in Game Mode, although only when the TV is set to 60HzMy first HDTV I bought in 2008 was a Panasonic and it didn't have a game mode, but had amazingly low input lag for that time with motion interpolation enabled, around 30 ms. The only problem was the motion interpolation was always forced and you couldn't turn it off, and it introduced artifacts.
But AFAIK Panasonic is not the only one, Samsung introduced motion interpolation in game mode four years ago and called it Game Motion Plus (in contrast to Auto Motion Plus). Back in the day, Rtings had this to say:
Last time I checked the QD-OLED line still has it so I wonder whether this could be regarded as an advantage compared to an LG OLED, as the latter doesn't let you use motion interpolation with low input lag. Then again, Rtings said it looks worse than Auto Motion Plus, so I wonder... any thoughts from Samsung owners?
As for image quality, yes, there is a difference, but I am glad the option exists, it's better than nothing.
With Game Mode on and Game Motion Plus enabled, the smooth transition between frames is not as good as without it disabled, even if Judder Reduction is set to 10 (max) and BFI is also enabled.
If you set Game Mode to Off, the transition between frames with Judder Reduction at 10 and Noise Reduction is a LOT smoother by comparison.
I've used the video of one of my favourite songs to look for differences. It's a video with cameras rotating and scrolling which is good for this test.
Game Mode on Game Plus settings enabled with Judder Reduction set to 10 and BFI enabled.
Game Mode off, Picture Clarity Settings with Judder Reduction set to 10 and BFI enabled.
The video from which I took the images. The biggest difference is that with Game Mode off Judder Reduction and BFI make the video look almost as if it was a 60fps video, with Game Mode on and those effects enabled in Game Plus settings, that smoothness effect is not as pronounced:
for those who want their (VA) QLED screens to look like an OLED panel, this works like a charm on the Samsung Q80T and Samsung Q80A -those with VA panel, afaik in the USA the 50" Q80A has a VA panel, and in Europe all Q80A models are VA-.
The idea here is to make the image look like on an OLED blacks and contrast wise, with the advantages of a QLED -HDR-. I tried it and I am not switching back now.
OLED panels have a blueish tone to them by default, while QLED tones are warmer -like in Movie settings so to say-, so this configuration imitates that.
I had some weird issues with black crush images on Death Stranding and Elden Ring and this solved them right away, it's quite impressive tbh.
Give it a try.
The idea here is to make the image look like on an OLED blacks and contrast wise, with the advantages of a QLED -HDR-. I tried it and I am not switching back now.
OLED panels have a blueish tone to them by default, while QLED tones are warmer -like in Movie settings so to say-, so this configuration imitates that.
I had some weird issues with black crush images on Death Stranding and Elden Ring and this solved them right away, it's quite impressive tbh.
- Picture Mode: Natural
- Aspect ratio: 16:9 Standard (Fit to Screen: On)
- Contrast: 50
- Shadow Detail: -2 (essential setting)
- Color: 25
- Tint: 0
- Sharpness: 0
- Color Tone: Cool (yes QLED tends to make the image warmer so trust me on this one)
- Brightness: 34 (this is a nice mix between the enhanced brightness of a QLED and the tone of an OLED, best of both worlds, if you want to go full brightness then set it to 50)
- Picture Clarity Settings: Custom (Judder Reduction: 10), BFI off, Noise Reduction: Auto
- Local Dimming: High
- Contrast Enhancer: Low (this is another essential setting. If you set it to Off the image might look dim, if you set it to High, it's too bright and a bit washed out, Low is ideal)
- Color Space Settings: Auto.
- HDMI Black Level: Auto
- Set on All sources
Give it a try.
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there is this video -I didnt get the settings from it- that explains similar concepts than those I mentioned in the previous post. The video is from 2020 from a different QLED model, but what is now Brightness back then was called Backlight, and what they called Brightness in 2020 is now Shadow Detail (the most important setting, which should be set to -2).
That is utterly bollox. None of that matters if you're using calibrated settings for accurate color reproduction.
For those that merely want their displays to have colors they like instead of accurate colors, change anything and everything to your liking.
For those that merely want their displays to have colors they like instead of accurate colors, change anything and everything to your liking.
in fact nothing stops you from selecting Warm 2 if you prefer, the most important setting is Shadow Detail set to -2 (and Natural), this was a game changer, some black crush I had in places like caves in Elden Ring or the intro of Death Stranding when the guy falls from the bike and must get up again, the take where his torso makes contact with the ground and he tries to get up was a black crush mess in the neck and chest area.
It's not OLED but it's a good VA panel with full array dimming and the blacks are okay.
after playing games like Elden Ring a bit more on different screens, I can say that I don't notice the lag as "lag". The striking difference is how the 4ms monitor shows the games. There isn't a single stutter under normal circumstances, evading enemies at the exact moment is much much easier for some reason, the camera's rotations are "perfect" and super fast and responsive. That's at 60fps or unlocked framerate (there is a mod to choose different framerates in Elden Ring). At 30fps the camera's rotation gives the framerate away, but the overall movement is more even, the "stutters" in between frames are correct, there isn't a difference in the transition from a frame to another, unlike on my 1080p TV and my 4K TV.
ZebMacahan
Regular
I got a basic samsung for our bedroom to play some 30 fps games on. While its muuuuch better than the OLED (my head doesn´t hurt after 2 minutes), its still 30 fps. Maybe my old plasma was better at 30 fps than this LCD, but I dont remember ever having an issue with 30 fps. After getting used to 60 fps, and especially on the super responsive OLED i suppose, I do find it quit hard to go back to 30 fps. I tried callisto protocol and plague tale requiem, and I dont know if I think the enhanced visuals are worth it. I doesnt help that the OLED has much better picture quality, and the HDR on the samsung is so weak it doesn´t even look like hdr.
When do you think 30 fps is worth it, if ever? Callisto might be one of those games, because the rt mode looks sooo much better, but the gameplay doenst feel as good. Higher resolution is definently not worth it imo.
When do you think 30 fps is worth it, if ever? Callisto might be one of those games, because the rt mode looks sooo much better, but the gameplay doenst feel as good. Higher resolution is definently not worth it imo.
OLED or QLED samsung? At least on the first two generations of LG OLEDs, the HDR wasnt as much pronounced but the black levels made it pop better. During that time Samsung's QLEDS had brighter HDR but not very good black levels.
Yah, unfortunately it sounds like we're five years from micro LED screens, and the first gen of those will probably have issues. Apple is supposed to be trying to transition all of their products to micro led, but televisions and large screens are a long way off. It'll be watch screens first.
I think for movie watching, OLED is still probably the best choice unless you're in a very bright room. Most HDR movies aren't mastered to get very bright anyway. The black level will have a bigger impact. Gaming is where it gets more difficult to choose.
ZebMacahan
Regular
It wasnt a very expensive samsung. Im pretty sure the HDR is much better on other LCDs.
Yeah sometimes I am not even sure if HDR really exists on my OLED gaming.
Sometimes I feel like HDR is a fud
sometimes, yes. I remember when I first got my monitor, in 2019 that when I enabled HDR on Windows the image had some kind of foggy veil over it and preferred the look of SDR. It's not like my monitor's HDR is incredible overall.
But there's a difference, specially the contrast between colors, blacks and whites, and color intensity. If you have a HDR capable screen and a computer, you can use Chrome or Edge to play a native HDR video on your screen and use Firefox -which doesn't support HDR so it plays HDR videos in SDR mode- to compare both side by side.
Death Stranding is a good game to see the effects of HDR when you use their calibration tool. -which you are forced to use once you start the game-
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