One thing that have has been revealed is that there is dedicated video memory. Don't know if this tidbit significant enough to be posted.
3DS to be more powerful than Wii -- Not using Nvidia's Tegra
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
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This would be a weird design decision if true. Why on earth would you have dedicated video memory in an SOC? I doubt they could have packed enough edram on-chip to be interesting, and why pay the cost of extra memory pins and then restrict what you can do with the extra bandwidth by segregating the usage?
brain_stew
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Good spot, most SOCs just have a single shared RAM pool so that would hint at a more custom design I guess.
How much would it need to be "interesting"? PSP had 2MB several years ago, 3DS can probably do better today. Depending on the design nearly any amount can be helpful. I strongly doubt there's a dedicated external bus for extra video memory.
I still haven't completely let go of the idea that the 3D graphics are an enhancement of the DS's, with especially more per-pixel capability and texture filtering. Maybe someone who is good at discerning polygon counts can give some estimates of geometric complexity on some of the screenshots. If an order of magnitude within DS's seems plausible (so say, ~20k triangles) then 3DS bumping the DS's internal RAM to accommodate that is not unrealistic.
Granted, I'm pretty impressed with Nintendo's offering. It's good that they're at least trying to deliver decent portable graphics instead of doing the bare minimum again, and the addition of an analog nub is a nice and somewhat unexpected decision (to me anyway). I do wonder what the CPU capabilities will be like. I also wonder exactly what implications externally controlled depth of field has, I would have figured that was a function of the depth of the actual 3D images. Maybe that's being scaled by the slider value.
brain_stew
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A GAF user has confirmed the RE demo that has been reported to be running in real time is the same one depicted in those screenshots. So they're legit minus the super high level of AA:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21889029&postcount=931
Pretty impressive if you ask me, the poly count may be something approaching PSP levels but the lighting/shadowing and shaders seem to have much more in common with the 360 version and texturing looks to be a real step up above the PSP as well. I'm definitely satisfied with this level of hardware.
Edit: Oh and here's a off screen video of the MGS demo:
http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=zHAawG5Dm5Z5aQ0GYq45A4h4l5k2TGxc
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21889029&postcount=931
Pretty impressive if you ask me, the poly count may be something approaching PSP levels but the lighting/shadowing and shaders seem to have much more in common with the 360 version and texturing looks to be a real step up above the PSP as well. I'm definitely satisfied with this level of hardware.
Edit: Oh and here's a off screen video of the MGS demo:
http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=zHAawG5Dm5Z5aQ0GYq45A4h4l5k2TGxc
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Thanks. The framerate looks fantastic btw.
ltcommander.data
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Any idea how this compares to what a SGX535 is capable of in say the iPhone 3G S or iPhone 4? Or how many cores a theoretical PSP2 with SGX543MP would need to match or overtake the 3DS?
The reality behind that is probably muddied by how much developers are (or aren't) pushing it and how talented they are at making games look good in spite of specs. iPhone 3GS hasn't exactly had a ton of top notch huge budget games made expressly for it.
I doubt anything we've now seen on 3DS can match or beat an SGX535 at decent clock speed, and a single SGX543 core is quite a bit more capable (2x the ALUs which are themselves wider and 2x the depth/stencil comparator rate)... but I don't think I'm a very good judge of capability from screenshots and videos. To me even some DS games look pretty good and I'm very acquainted with how weak that hardware is.
But then you have the whole screen for the game. Metres and counters can be put on the bottom screen. AND you can turn of the 3D to get very high horizontal resolution if need be.
Could any experienced users with good memory tell me;
Is there much difference between launch games on a handheld, compared to say game a year or two in ? I know on main consoles all the development makes the launch games look last gen.
What are the chances that these launch games are not using the 3DS to its full ability ? I know 'ability' is very subjective but I would assume, as time goes on, new algorithms and techniques would improve the graphics etc
Is there much difference between launch games on a handheld, compared to say game a year or two in ? I know on main consoles all the development makes the launch games look last gen.
What are the chances that these launch games are not using the 3DS to its full ability ? I know 'ability' is very subjective but I would assume, as time goes on, new algorithms and techniques would improve the graphics etc
brain_stew
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What the hell is up with DF's take on the 3DS? Not at all in the same league as a Tegra device? Well past the PSP but maybe not quite as powerful as a Dreamcast? No sign that it has programmable shaders? Huh!? How on earth could they come to those conclusions? They're not even consistent with each other nevermind some of the screenshots we've seen.
All the same rules apply, that it is a handheld system changes very little. The PSP is a perfect example, God of War looks as though its produced on entirely different hardware than most launch titles.
All the same rules apply, that it is a handheld system changes very little. The PSP is a perfect example, God of War looks as though its produced on entirely different hardware than most launch titles.
PSP has a 24bpp display and the means to display 24bpp graphics - I don't see how having dithering as a hardware feature is a disadvantage.
Squeak said:
I don't think "metres and counters" tend to take up a lot of screen area, except of course for DS (and now 3DS) games where they're looking to fill space on that second screen. As for being able to turn off 3D to double the horizontal resolution, I don't think we know for sure it actually works that way. There could be some obstacles involved.
Video of 3DS MGS3D in action...
Check out this video of the 3DS MGS demo in action-- while the 3D is not discernable, the graphics look pretty outstanding. Certainly more impressive in my opinion than the still shots suggest.
http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=zHAawG5Dm5Z5aQ0GYq45A4h4l5k2TGxc
Check out this video of the 3DS MGS demo in action-- while the 3D is not discernable, the graphics look pretty outstanding. Certainly more impressive in my opinion than the still shots suggest.
http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=zHAawG5Dm5Z5aQ0GYq45A4h4l5k2TGxc
Of course there are a few games where you don't need or by design leave out a HUD. But they are few and it would almost always be better to have one if not for anything else but a map. With the DS line you have a whole screen for that shit, if you need it.
Even a single 16x16 counter distracts and obfuscates much more than the rectangle it occupies.
Unlike reported by DF, Miyamoto confirms shaders.
"We have shaders that people are able to take advantage of [...]."
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/16/interview-nintendos-shigeru-miyamoto-on-3ds-retro-zelda-and/
"We have shaders that people are able to take advantage of [...]."
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/16/interview-nintendos-shigeru-miyamoto-on-3ds-retro-zelda-and/
I don't know who claimed the 3DS is capable of graphics close to X360/PS3 but they must have been smoking something hallucinogenic. 
From the screenshots of RE and MGS, it's obvious there is some very good lighting but the polygons seem very low and textures quality is not very detailed. I'd say the graphics is somewhere inbetween Dreamcast and Xbox 1.
From the screenshots of RE and MGS, it's obvious there is some very good lighting but the polygons seem very low and textures quality is not very detailed. I'd say the graphics is somewhere inbetween Dreamcast and Xbox 1.
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