The next Nintendo hardware? [2021-09]

...and the subset of the audience that are interested in Nintendo games but only if they are on a powerful home console is minimal.
We don't actually know that - it's untested. Maybe 2-3x more people would buy their content if on powerful hardware? Also, there are people like me who want to play Nintendo games but won't buy a console that can't play all the other games in proper console quality on a TV. If Switch had a home-console version capable of playing PS4 level versions of FIFA, COD, Fortnite, etc., it may be some gamers who bought a PS4 or XBO for those types of games would have bought this Nintendo machine instead to get the library of multiplats they want plus Nintendo exclusives. At the moment it's more a choice between Nintendo games or multiplats, or two devices, even if Switch has closed that gap over previous Nintendo machines.

We have no idea what Nintendo's maximal potential reach is. All I can say is they have a very highly reviewed library and it'd be a bit weird if gamers not owning Ninty hardware weren't as enamoured with those titles as those who buy Ninty hardware.
 
Yeah I would love to play some Big N ip again (I had every home consoles from them), but I won't buy a switch only for that to have a crappy pq on a 55 screen :/ For 70B I'll buy Nintendo instead of activision :eek:
 
We don't actually know that - it's untested. Maybe 2-3x more people would buy their content if on powerful hardware? Also, there are people like me who want to play Nintendo games but won't buy a console that can't play all the other games in proper console quality on a TV. If Switch had a home-console version capable of playing PS4 level versions of FIFA, COD, Fortnite, etc., it may be some gamers who bought a PS4 or XBO for those types of games would have bought this Nintendo machine instead to get the library of multiplats they want plus Nintendo exclusives. At the moment it's more a choice between Nintendo games or multiplats, or two devices, even if Switch has closed that gap over previous Nintendo machines.

We have no idea what Nintendo's maximal potential reach is. All I can say is they have a very highly reviewed library and it'd be a bit weird if gamers not owning Ninty hardware weren't as enamoured with those titles as those who buy Ninty hardware.

Switch is on pace to be the best selling console of all time, although it could stall out if Nintendo rolls out the next Switch in the next year or two. Regardless, no, history suggest that there isnt two to three times as many people interested in buying their hardware if it were more powerful with a more complete lineup of third party titles. Switch has sold over 100 million units in less than five years, suggesting they might have sold 200 or 300 million units if there had been a more powerful home console only SKU doesn't seem plausible to me. Gamecube was very competitive in terms of power and did have a great deal of the third party titles but only sold 20 million units. It would be generous to assume that a Switch home console SKU would increase the sales by even that number, and more likely you would simply have a segment of the current Switch userbase who did purchase a Switch but if a home console SKU had been made available, may have chose that model instead. You would likely end up with a similar total number of consoles sold in the end. Anything is possible when we entertain hypotheticals, but its hard to argue with Nintendo's choices as it pertains to Switch when it will be the third best selling console ever by the end of 2022.

The idea that their is a large segment of the population that are interested in Nintendo games but the hardware power makes it a deal breaker is unlikely. Again, anything is possible, but sales data suggest that Switch as it stands has been an attractive product to the majority of consumers interested in buying gaming hardware. These are things we will never know for certain, but its chasing a rabbit down the rabbit hole. I could suggest hypotheticals that may have allowed Sony to sell 250 million PS4's, you wouldn't be able to prove those hypotheticals to be wrong, but it would be fair to assume they are unlikely.
 
Other than cost and power.
I think Steam Deck is the better example, a much closer related device, and at a reasonably close price point. So yes, it's possible. Whether it's likely is another question. Much as I like the Steam Deck for what it is, I don't think either Nintendo or its customers would like a Switch 2 modelled after it. They'd prefer smaller, lighter, cheaper, better battery life. Going all out on SoC performance fits that list like a foot in a glove.

Yeah Nintendo is not likely to use a bleeding edge processor or memory.

They could easily sell a $500 gaming device but they may want a larger audience, though you can argue that they can have almost as much volume as the Switch if they priced at $400 and then cut prices if necessary.

Thing is, with the current state of manufacturing, they may get as much volume for 5 nm chips as say 10 nm or greater. Only thing is, they have to pay probably to get to the front of the line, competing with the likes of Apple.

If they used a SOC which is 1/3 or 1/4 the power of the PS5 or maybe just about at parity with PS4, they'd still sell well, 1080p portable, maybe 1440p docked?

But would an SOC comparable to the PS4 still be manufacturable in volume these days?
 
For backwards compatibility, couldn't they just use half the shaders at twice the clock? Tegra X1 is 2B transistors, but the GPU is much smaller than that, for BC, if they can use half the shader count, it could be as small as 300M-500M transistors, when considering Tegra X1 is made on 20nm with a ~17M Transistors per mm, Samsung's 8nm is ~3x as dense, meaning they could fit ~6B transistors in the same space, even losing out on 500M transistors would still net them 3 times+ the performance jump thanks to "Ampere+" architecture (Orin uses much more internal cache and "Dane" is rumored to be a much smaller sister die). As for DLSS, MX570 will support it, and the even lower end Nvidia A2 with just 1280 shaders and 40 tensor cores should be capable of DLSS, so I'd expect Dane to have around half the shaders of MX570 to fit a similar power envelope of the original Switch, giving it 1024 shaders, 32 tensor cores and possibly 8 RT cores (again half of MX570).

Even if the clock was 1GHz when docked, the GPU would push 2TFLOPs Ampere"+" and offer DLSS, when in portable mode, I'd expect them to use 600MHz or so, pushing 1.2TFLOPs Ampere, which should match up well with PS4 even without DLSS, though considering the speed at which the tensor cores could process 720p, DLSS could be a very realistic option for portable mode, which would see it exceed Steam Deck in visual performance, as it could render the games at 480p-540p and use DLSS to reach 720p, the benefit here is AA is applied via DLSS and the smaller screen would help hide any imperfections of the image.

A78C would allow a huge jump in CPU performance over the current Switch's A57 cores at 1GHz, I'd expect a ~50% increase in clock and IPC is about 3 times more performant over A57, and A78C can be an 8 core cluster. That could offer as much as 10 times the performance of the CPU found in Switch (for gaming, as I'm counting 3 cores vs 7 cores here).

Lastly, Nintendo currently uses LPDDR4X in their Switch, but I'd expect them to use either LPDDR5 or LPDDR5X, which at 128bits is 102GB/s or ~133GB/s. Switch has 25.6GB/s, so the upgrade is again huge. This is based on GPU architecture 2 years old right now, and Dane which if real, started in late 2019 after Mariko and before Orin's announcement in December 2019, should be ready this year or next IMO.

This is mostly what I've come to after the last few years of speculation, I also don't think the die needs to be limited to ~120mm^2, as Wii U's GPU alone was ~160mm^2 and was built on a more expensive MCM solution. We should actually know if Dane is coming this calendar year around the end of April when Nintendo releases their earnings and announce projected hardware sales, they are expecting to sell 23M units this FY, but if next FY there is 25M+ well that would mean they have entirely different units with different chips in them. I fully expect Nintendo to treat a new model like this as a "4K" revision, there is also a lot of talk from Nintendo's leaders about pursuing cloud technology for game streaming, which could mean they are building a "Dane" powered network to run their first party titles that target Dane onto the current Switch units, I don't expect Nintendo to launch exclusive Dane software in a capacity exceeding New 3DS had, at least not for a couple years, when they could have their cloud ready. Ultimately they could sell you a Switch "2" game on your Switch and when you play it, it launches a cloud version of the game, but when you play it on a Switch 2, it runs locally, wouldn't matter if you had a digital or physical version of the game either, sort of the best hope for an everlasting platform and moving away from hardware that Iwata talked about originally, and solves the problem of maintaining the 100M+ owners they currently have, that the president of Nintendo just talked about in their Q&A.
 
Back
Top