[360, PS3] Crysis 2

[Fran]

Frankly, Who knows? Who knows what those games would have been if the dev had made them primarily for PCs that can run Crysis like games at High(or Very High). Maybe the crowd simulations, AI behaviours, number of stuff on screen would have been completely different !

I think this is a moot argument: what can you potentially do if you use the world's most powerful super computer to make a game? A game that nobody can play.

The way I see it is that I'd be happy to work on something that potentially millions of players can play, and I'd love this something to be the 'best' (insert your favourite definition of best) on that platform. It gives me more pleasure than trying to display hundreds of characters on a super computer.

 

[deepbrown]

http://www.gamezine.co.uk/news/game-types/shooter/crysis-not-necessarily-coming-the-ps3-or-360-that-matter-$1300130.htm

Yes, it will be based on Cryengine 3.0 for new and enhanced features. Very good call I'd say and can't wait to see what awesome footage they'll bring at E3.

http://www.gamezine.co.uk/news/game-types/shooter/crysis-not-necessarily-coming-the-ps3-or-360-that-matter-$1300130.htm

It is interesting to think what will be compromised. Something has to be.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I think this is a moot argument: what can you potentially do if you use the world's most powerful super computer to make a game? A game that nobody can play.

The way I see it is that I'd be happy to work on something that potentially millions of players can play, and I'd love this something to be the 'best' (insert your favourite definition of best) on that platform. It gives me more pleasure than trying to display hundreds of characters on a super computer.

I don't think its amoot argument. i am talking about PCs tha exist out there with people like you and me. We are playing Crysis , right?

 

[Fran]

I don't think its amoot argument. i am talking about PCs tha exist out there with people like you and me. We are playing Crysis , right?

Definitely not. If you want to "push" a game on PC hardware far beyond what a console can do, you can't expect to do it on a 300$ PC that anyone can realistically buy.

 

[grandmaster]

So long as the sometimes severe frame rate issues in the GDC trailer are sorted, I can't wait to play Crysis on console

 

[green.pixel]

Frankly, Who knows? Who knows what those games would have been if the dev had made them primarily for PCs that can run Crysis like games at High(or Very High). Maybe the crowd simulations, AI behaviours, number of stuff on screen would have been completely different !

Those are pretty big IFs.

You don't have the evidences that could confirm your statements, so debating what would've happened is pointless. You can't change the past, just like you can't change the fact that the C2 will be multiplatfrom now that it's been anounced. We also don't know how the C2 would look like until they release PC and console material from the actual game.

ever since Oblivion they've gimped the PC versions with awkward controls and muddied textures, among other things.

PC version of Oblivion has much better controls due to superiority of m&kb in RPGs. What awkward controls are you talking about ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't think its amoot argument. i am talking about PCs tha exist out there with people like you and me. We are playing Crysis , right?

What percentage of the game-playing public have the capabilities to play Crysis at a standard significantly beyond what a highly optimized PS360 engine could do? If you were a dev in the 16 bit era, would you rather create the world's greatest game on 3DO hardware which no-one could afford to run in all it's glory, or a compromised game on on the old 16 bit systems that would actually make you a profit?

Crytrek have said it themselves - there's no market for high-end content. The number of people willing to pay for top-end systems isn't enough to pay for top-end game development. The only way this could work is if there were high-end versions of the games at $200 or more. I dare say Crysis is the last great forray into 'better than now' technology, written to hardware standards that won't be commonplace for years to come. The future is writing game for the markets that are large enough to support them.

 

[Rangers]

Frankly, Who knows? Who knows what those games would have been if the dev had made them primarily for PCs that can run Crysis like games at High(or Very High). Maybe the crowd simulations, AI behaviours, number of stuff on screen would have been completely different !

But, it never happened, coz they knew that it has to run the same on the limited capabilities of the consoles too. This might sound hypothetical, but that is the whole POINT.

Would you have agrered that games could look as Ultra realistic as Crysis, had it not been done ?
What if Crytek had limited its tech for consoles, then Crysis would have never been what it is today !

Why do you keep talking about great AI?

Where is great AI in Crysis?

I dont see great AI in any game, just varying degrees of the right kind of unpredictability.. (Gears 1 has the best AI too me, very dynamic in whether the enemies stay back or come at you for melee combat without warning, feels like no other game imo)

 

[Neb]

What percentage of the game-playing public have the capabilities to play Crysis at a standard significantly beyond what a highly optimized PS360 engine could do? If you were a dev in the 16 bit era, would you rather create the world's greatest game on 3DO hardware which no-one could afford to run in all it's glory, or a compromised game on on the old 16 bit systems that would actually make you a profit?

I don't think he meant to say top end Quad SLI systems but rather the average of 4770/8800GT class hardware amongst gamers. Ranging from high-end back in 2006 8800GTS to cheap-end in 2008/09 with 4770/8800GT. Whichever vastly more powerful.

 

[obonicus]

What percentage of the game-playing public have the capabilities to play Crysis at a standard significantly beyond what a highly optimized PS360 engine could do? If you were a dev in the 16 bit era, would you rather create the world's greatest game on 3DO hardware which no-one could afford to run in all it's glory, or a compromised game on on the old 16 bit systems that would actually make you a profit?

Crytrek have said it themselves - there's no market for high-end content. The number of people willing to pay for top-end systems isn't enough to pay for top-end game development. The only way this could work is if there were high-end versions of the games at $200 or more. I dare say Crysis is the last great forray into 'better than now' technology, written to hardware standards that won't be commonplace for years to come. The future is writing game for the markets that are large enough to support them.

That's all true, but that's not the spirit that much of B3D operates under. Especially not the PC Games subforum. If we were focusing on market, we'd pay a lot more attention to the Wii, but we're mostly technophiles.

 

[Neb]

Why do you keep talking about great AI?

Where is great AI in Crysis?

I dont see great AI in any game, just varying degrees of the right kind of unpredictability.. (Gears 1 has the best AI too me, very dynamic in whether the enemies stay back or come at you for melee combat without warning, feels like no other game imo)

Neither did he claim that in his post. And being OT but what you hold so high in Gears 1 is found in Crysis in large scale environment and then much more. Of course AI is not flawless but taking into account the size of the environment and that it is dynamic makes it hard to "cover all edges" and despite that it is a showcase for this gen good AI.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=425BE6DAB1AF6035

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Why do you keep talking about great AI?

Where is great AI in Crysis?

I dont see great AI in any game, just varying degrees of the right kind of unpredictability.. (Gears 1 has the best AI too me, very dynamic in whether the enemies stay back or come at you for melee combat without warning, feels like no other game imo)

I find it very dynamic and the best. But I think it will become subjective then, as Gears AI doesn't impress me at all. In a similar situation, I find Uncharted AI better. But lets not go that way.

The point is that the hardware exists out there on the PCs, to implement AI with more threads working than on the consoles. Just like AC devs said that AI works better on the PS3, rthan X360 due to the Cell.

Apart from that , the gameplay that might arise due to the fact that we have better hardwares, like bigger group behaviours, the possibility of having more enemies on screen alone can change the gameplay direction the game takes. And thats a valid point for me, cause I want the gameplay to evolve with the hardware, not just the visuals!

@Shifty Geezer: I guess there are enough PCs out there, especially since 4850 came out , graphics hardware has become pretty cheaper.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

@Shifty Geezer: I guess there are enough PCs out there, especially since 4850 came out , graphics hardware has become pretty cheaper.

That depends entirely on how many people upgrade. I dunno. Is there anywhere with install figures for GPUs that'll let us know how big the markets are? I'm guessing, whatever tech is out, those using PCs for mid/high-end gaming (not the Sims or PopCap!) can't be that numerous or else CryTek wouldn't be looking to 50 million consoles to beef their sales instead of a billion PCs.

As a personal example, I'm on a fanless ATi9600 that was a hand-me-down replacement to my Ti4200. I have no incentive to upgrade. As a gamer, the PC proposition isn't attracting me to spend £200+ on upgrade hardware (whole new replacement to my AthlonXP 2500) versus an HD console. So I'm one gamer that is content with the HD consoles. How many other gamers want a console instead of a suitable PC (upgrade)? We know there are 50 million of them, which is a market for Crytek. How does the PC gaming market compare? Has the introduction of new cheap, powerful GPUs imcreased the market size? Ever even. Has there ever been an occassion where a new GPU saw a spike in PC gaming? There may well be, but I don't have any data so don't really know.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

And Bethesda is a terrible example -- ever since Oblivion they've gimped the PC versions with awkward controls and muddied textures, among other things.

IRC Oblivion textures where higher quality in the PC version.

awkward controls? Only explanation i can find for this is you not being used to mouse + keyboard, nothing awkward about oblivion pc.

 

[Neb]

Has the introduction of new cheap, powerful GPUs imcreased the market size? Ever even. Has there ever been an occassion where a new GPU saw a spike in PC gaming? There may well be, but I don't have any data so don't really know.

One could perhaps look at the sales numbers for different types of GPUs since 2006/2005. Same for CPUs although even budget PCs comes with Quads/medium end dual-cores. I'll wager the amount of 8800GTS+ HW is very high...

Also that Zalman still got it's color left?

 

[obonicus]

IRC Oblivion textures where higher quality in the PC version.

I played the PC version, never saw the console versions. I do recall ridiculously low-res textures when up close on the PC -- Oblivion was a beautiful game on the PC, from far away. Maybe it's just a lack of artists, but it was fairly unexplicable how muddy and ugly Oblivion textures were.

awkward controls? Only explanation i can find for this is you not being used to mouse + keyboard, nothing awkward about oblivion pc.

C'mon, they ported the console interface over to the PC. You had to install mods to get an inventory screen that wasn't completely stupid. Especially when you compare to built-for-PC games like Morrowind. The console-to-pc port of shame combo is two-part. Part one is lowest-common-denominator graphics, aka 'I can run this at 2160p with 8xAA and 120FPS'. The second part is 'better limit the number of actions to about a dozen (or however many you can fit onto a gamepad) -- and make sure your interface is navigable with the arrow keys'.

 

[obonicus]

One could perhaps look at the sales numbers for different types of GPUs since 2006/2005. Same for CPUs although even budget PCs comes with Quads/medium end dual-cores. I'll wager the amount of 8800GTS+ HW is very high...

Also that Zalman still got it's color left?

But past that, even if we assume that mid-range machines far outpower consoles (not that preposterous, excluding garbage IGPs) it's fairly irrelevant. Look into Brad Wardell's comments about the size of the PC market -- PCs have never been gigantic (excluding WoW, which is where most of those 8800s will see use, and not much else). What's happened is that PC developers see consoles as a platform that is close enough to PC to allow the games they want to make, and the much larger install-base is downright attractive.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

and Piracy !

 

[Neb]

But past that, even if we assume that mid-range machines far outpower consoles (not that preposterous, excluding garbage IGPs) it's fairly irrelevant. Look into Brad Wardell's comments about the size of the PC market -- PCs have never been gigantic (excluding WoW, which is where most of those 8800s will see use, and not much else).

You assume 8800 owners will only play WoW? Thats an insanely ridicolous claim!

And for each person claiming PC gaming isn't large you have another saying the opposite. I wonder what Gabe Newell says.

What's happened is that PC developers see consoles as a platform that is close enough to PC to allow the games they want to make, and the much larger install-base is downright attractive.

Sure but that is not a solid recipe for good sales (hint: KZ2).

 

[RenegadeRocks]

The PC market still exists , IMO, look at STALKER, Battlefield series, Crysis series, AOE series, The SIms, Bioshock, COD series and the list keeps going on . These games did well on the PCs, some of them only on the PCs.