360 HD-DVD Rumours - $170 in JPN? 1080p and MCE compatability?

I believe the new Samsung S series DLP sets released earlier this year will accept 1080p over component and a few lesser known brands like HP do as well. The new DLP sets from Toshiba and Mitsubishi will not and neither will the SXRD sets from Sony. It is worth mentioning that most of the new 1080p sets have a PC input with either a VGA or DVI connection that from what I've read from owners on AVS can handle 1080p.

Most of the 1080p content available now is HD DVD and Blu-ray which is limted to HDMI so I understand why most sets don't bother to support 1080p over component. It will be interesting to see if the new sets released in Summer-Fall 2007 add support since by then I'd expect the 360/PS3 Core base to be 12-15+ million. We should get hint of whats to come at CES in January.

 

Why do you think the HD-DVD is only in 1080i? I understand that 1080i is still 1080p/24sf in a 60hz wrapper but i wonder why not offer up the native format? or 1080/30p?

 

Thanks Tap In. Over VGA eh? Well, that's almost the same as not at all then as far as the average consumer is concerned; though ironically the average consumer probably can't discern what resolution they're viewing at anyway.

And does the scaling support for 720p to 1080p essentially mean that as long as the TV can display it, all games will be scaled to 1080p? I think I'm still unclear on this point.

Yeah that still means that MS is working in a constrained environment then though. It's not Sony's PS3 in a void that's creating shortages... indeed the entire industry is constrained right now. And BD partners that would have sourced from them before now have to go to Nichia, increasing demand at the primary supplier for both camps.

I imagine everything should be ok in 1080p land for the HDMI version though.

 

Going way off topic here, but why can't TVs run at lower than 50/60Hz? We hear how PAL TVs get sped-up films. Surely these days an LCD TV for example could actually sync to 24 fps.

 

Probably a contract issue. There was a post a while back suggesting blue laser diodes would be north of $175 for new customers, or words to that effect. Basically, that's the sort of price you'd need to be willing to pay to get any of the stock. My guess is MS's is consuming Toshiba stock, and the diodes will be whatever Toshiba gets and is willing to put into an XB360 HD DVD drive. I don't suppose they have a supply problem, as my guess is the supply is being determined by another party. I can't imagine MS going to the effort of handling this as a full MS-driven product, sourcing components and whatnot. The returns just aren't there. I think (random speculation of course) that this is Toshiba using MS as a marketting partner, providing the drives for MS to pass on, benefiting both parties. That would make the drive Toshiba's responsibility.

 

The actual blue laser component is the same in both device. The drive heads may have different costs, but the diodes are the same thing.

 

^^^ Exactly.

Also great point with the 'Toshiba project' analysis Shifty. These drives are very likely actually being manufactured by Toshiba themselves under an OEM agreement, and sourced on the cheap to MS. It's of mutual interest to both parties, and it would provide MS with 'below-market' components/finished goods, even though Toshiba themselves is not a producer of blue laser diodes.

Toshiba is also making MS' Zune player for them, so probably a fairly strong manufacturing relationship between the two at this point.

 

Here is some VERY good information regard Blu Ray and HD DVD diodes and OPU's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8383411&&#post8383411

 

There are some things i don't get about these annoncements :
- Scaling games to 1080p, is it :
+ Hardware ? : the quality of the internal scaler is questionnable (i am not sure it would be marvellous).
+ Software ? : Where do they find the resource to perform it ?
- Movies : HDCP is no more mandatory for HD content ?

any ideas ?

 

Probably the hardware.

Not only scaling to 1080p, they also mentioned that it is possible for a game to render to 1080p although Microsoft has no intention of making such a game.

Technically it is still. The analog resolution (well actually image quality since the frame rate is a part of the equation) restriction is controled by ICT (Image Constraint Token) as a part of AACS. However, it is rumored that the movie studios have decided to defer the usage of ICT until 2011. At least none of the HD DVD and the BD titles so far include ICT.

Also note that 1080p output for movies on Xbox 360 is over the VGA output only. For movies, the component output will still be limited to 1080i.

Hong.

 

I think you are missing what I am referring to, even on the current BD players, the film content goes from 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 to 1080p/60 the BD players have a chip dedicated to that last step (expletive: thats what I was referring to, the fact that the BD's have an extra chip, I wasn't expecting the 360HD to add an additional cost to itself when even our HD A1s havent added the chip, which is why we have 1080i as our output). So, regardless of it being HDMI (the HD A1 is hdmi as well) everything is not ok. Its a hardware issue that effects all the current devices. I just want my content to go from disc to tv with as little processing as possible (read: none ). Personally, I think its just easier to blame everything on the tv mfrs. 1080p/24 please, thank you very much.

Again, I still think that users are going to find that setting your 360 to 1080i or 1080p on native 720p sets looks better than keeping the setting at 720p with regards to 1080i/p content. This is of course based on the first gen toshibas.

 

From what I understand that was a bug on the toshiba unit that has been fixed with 2.0. I am not expecting much from a sub 200 dollar HD-Movie player add on anyways. I am hoping for sub 300 dollar standalone players by next christmass.

 

Many would disagree, 2.0 while better for 720p, still isn't quite there. However, it is MUCH better than the previous, firmware revisions.

 

1080p is now cool.

It was a frivolous thing on the PS3 as I recall.

 

Ridge Racer 7 on PS3 looks pretty decent at 1080p.

 

I got my 1080p set before this announcement and thank you.

 

have you seen it in person Cobra?


in general...
it amazes me how many people are so quick to make sweeping judgements about games based off of crappy screens and movies and declare success or failure.

let's wait until both machines are out and let's play the games at home on our 1080p sets before determining what's what, shall we.

 

Sorry. I am just going by journalists opinions as they did play it hands on.

Guess they are wrong and its a graphically poor game.