[360] Forza Motorsport 3

I'm sorry, but the triangle just zooms in during the replay. So you're just seeing the replay model up close in the replay which runs at 30fps with some DOF and motion blur, as we've discussed. It's not a photo mode. Photo mode for GT4 added tonnes of effects never seen in the replay, offered all sorts of filters, exposure times, and so on and so forth. I can only imagine what Photo Mode in GT5 would be like if they update it ... wouldn't be surprised if it is fully ray-traced or something crazy like that, producing something like a 10MB image that you can print on a poster or something.
 
Arwin said:
I'm sorry, but the triangle just zooms in during the replay. So you're just seeing the replay model up close in the replay which runs at 30fps with some DOF and motion blur, as we've discussed. It's not a photo mode. Photo mode for GT4 added tonnes of effects never seen in the replay, offered all sorts of filters, exposure times, and so on and so forth. I can only imagine what Photo Mode in GT5 would be like if they update it ... wouldn't be surprised if it is fully ray-traced or something crazy like that, producing something like a 10MB image that you can print on a poster or something.
Click to expand...

I would second that.

But without going anymore offtopic I'd say regarding those Forza 3 screens, if they are photomode with additional & superior effects. Then why is it that we still see traces of bilinear filtering in some of those screens :S . Some as in here:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3635/3626182184_afc004be7d_o.jpg

I see the mip mapping change noticeably right near the front tire. [or am I missing something :?: ]
 
Arwin said:
I'm sorry, but the triangle just zooms in during the replay. So you're just seeing the replay model up close in the replay which runs at 30fps with some DOF and motion blur, as we've discussed. It's not a photo mode. Photo mode for GT4 added tonnes of effects never seen in the replay, offered all sorts of filters, exposure times, and so on and so forth. I can only imagine what Photo Mode in GT5 would be like if they update it ... wouldn't be surprised if it is fully ray-traced or something crazy like that, producing something like a 10MB image that you can print on a poster or something.
Click to expand...

"It's not a photo mode" but compared to gameplay it is in replay mode that minimally adds DOF, motion blur, and zooms in non-gameplay cameras.

Seems like it is parsing semantics while the point being made, at least it appears to me, is the use of shots not represenative of gameplay. Everything else is a diversion unless the point is to argue that GT5P shots are not photo-mode, but replay, and therefor do represent the game in some sense, which in turn makes the fuss over the 30fps directfeed replays kind of irrelevant. What is a photomode anyhow? So one had a "camera" that is a full featured SLR and the other a camera with cellphone like features, at the end of the day neither are 100% identical to gameplay.

Avoiding all the technicalities ("your photomode adds more than my photomode is more similar" and "but my replay adds less than your replay, so it is more similar") there is gameplay and then there is everything else--but everything else may, or may not, be roughly similar to the actual product. No magic word like "replay, not a photomode" addresses this issue.
 
phil-t said:
Just some info that may alleviate your concerns.

The Cockpit view is being worked on, at the Audi AXF event, the T10 guys did say to one of the guys 60fps is the target for all view, and it's quite evident from the lighting model that they haven't 'finished' in this area of the game.

The driving model improvements have been 'talked' about to get a good idea
- Tyre deformation phsyics
- More realistic centre's of gravity
And feedback from all at the 24 Hour AXF event was that it's a big step up from FM2..
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that, seeing as a huge chunk of Turn10's direct media info has been directed toward how they have maintained and increased the driving model. What I find overlooked is that Turn10 is also aiming at accessibility (e.g. single button racing, which I think is a great idea), not penalizing assists but instead rewarding fewer assists, and also making the SP more catered toward each gamer.
 
Joshua Luna said:
"It's not a photo mode" but compared to gameplay it is in replay mode that minimally adds DOF, motion blur, and zooms in non-gameplay cameras.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I said.

Seems like it is parsing semantics
Click to expand...

I just really rather enjoy precision. Maybe it's because I'm a linguist at heart, but probably a significant amount of people on this board in particular feel the same.

I actually really like both replay modes and photo modes in racing games with cars like these, by the way! I love being able to watch a beautiful replay of my race. So here too I care for and enjoy the work Turn 10 puts in to improve those. Also see nightshade's post, where we have an example of visible difference between photo-mode and replay mode in Forza 3 for instance. It's useful to make the distinction. In fact, there is probably four: gameplay, replay, photo mode and bullshot. Also, in GT5 Prologue there are differences depending on when you drive in cockpit view or use a HUD, etc. as well.

I noticed in the last videos posted by the way, that there is now some lighting on the dashboard. It seems like it's not being updated every frame, but they'll likely get that sorted before release, which is great. I really missed it in the original videos where the cockpit seemed devoid of (dynamic) lighting altogether.

@phil-t: thanks! A more realistic tyre model and a more realistic center of gravity could really help alleviate my issues with Forza 2's driving model.
 
Arwin said:
I noticed in the last videos posted by the way, that there is now some lighting on the dashboard. It seems like it's not being updated every frame, but they'll likely get that sorted before release, which is great. I really missed it in the original videos where the cockpit seemed devoid of (dynamic) lighting altogether.
Click to expand...

F2 did that with reflections. More games should defer non-essential work if the framerate would otherwise suffer (although having said that I found the reflections distracting on bonnet view in F2, especially when cornering).

phil-t said:
The driving model improvments have been touted quite vocally, tyre deformation physics, some insight from the MacLaren F1 simulator, more realisitic centre of gravities, etc.
Everyone that has given 'feedback' regards how the cars drive from the Audi event have unanimously said it's a noticeable step up from FM2, so it's shaping up nicely.
Click to expand...

That's good to hear. Although I'd expect tyre deformation to be a visual effect only - but at the same time I would expect tyre model improvements, it was needed in F2.
 
FM2's replays are not so hot IMO,

If you hire an AI driver (endurance races can be boring for me ;), you get treated to the whole race via replay cams..

I can put up with the (feels sub) 30fps, but I do find the reflections are probably running every other framel they must be 15fps.

From all footage I have seen, it does look as though replays are 30fps, but it does seem a damn site smoother then FM2, which I still play quite a bit of.
 
Lots more screen shots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16488682&postcount=2393


My favorite of the bunch:
1856_0007.jpg
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! What's with the tiled gravel texture?? Jeez, two textures is all it takes to effectively elliminate repeating tile patterns on noisy surfaces. This was possible with the introduction of multitexturing, yet to this day, even with hugely programmable shader hardware, we see repeating patterns in gravel and grass etc. Sort it out, 21st century developers!

Other than that, the scenery looks pretty detailed and convincing.
 
The first and the third picture on the gaf page look pretty good, but the rest just doesn't look right. For a big part though it might just be a lack of contrast? At least I think more contrast could really help here.
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! What's with the tiled gravel texture??
Click to expand...
yes looks terrible, like something out of quake2 (or doom even)
in case the artists are reading, another method to reduce it is to run a highpass filter over the texture.
The lighting in the above screenshot looks very flat, motionblur looks good though
 
I am not the most knowledgeable about graphics, but I find it funny that he sort of downplays the post effects, when those usually are the polish that makes things look outstanding compared to just good :)
 
JPT said:
I am not the most knowledgeable about graphics, but I find it funny that he sort of downplays the post effects, when those usually are the polish that makes things look outstanding compared to just good :)
Click to expand...

DOF in stills as used in GT5 and FZ3 does a lot to enhance image, or for that mather any other game. Though going by his comments the car should be the same as would the lighting and environment.
 
Arwin said:
The first and the third picture on the gaf page look pretty good, but the rest just doesn't look right. For a big part though it might just be a lack of contrast? At least I think more contrast could really help here.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the background just seems to bright compared to the car. Such things can make even the best games look bad.
 
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