If id gets DOOM3 running on the PS2 I will eat my hat. PS2 can do stencil shadows just fine, but it cannot do per-pixel lighting, and dot3 bumpmapping is too costly to be done on every surface and texture like its done in DOOM3. DOOM3 with vertex lighting and no bumpmapping will look worse than Tenebrae Quake. I doubt id would humiliate themselves with such a thing.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
granted it was said Doom 3 is probally coming to all consoles, but as it stands, Xbox version is the only one that will look anything like what we have seen, Im pretty positive the others will be scaled back.
Xbox-look like Doom 3
GC- look like UT2k3
PS2- Look like Quake 3
Xbox-look like Doom 3
GC- look like UT2k3
PS2- Look like Quake 3
Qroach:
> I don't recall that.
I wouldn't expect you to.
> I remrmber them saying that they weren't sure about gamecube since
> they didn't know much about the hardware.
Meaning that the will to port it is there.
The exact quote:
"A lot of ppl have asked about GameCube or PlayStation 2 or any other hardware apart from the Xbox and I think it is really too hard to... too early to tell at this point. Um, I don't know that the PlayStation 2 hardware is gonna be capable of presenting the type of experience that we believe is crucial to what we're trying to build within Doom 3. GameCube has some potential there but there's a lot of unanswered technical questions... uh, that we just have to cross those bridges when we get to them a little bit further down the road."
> What makes you so much more certain thant carmack??
Precedence.
> IF the game is ever ported to PS2 (which i don't think will happen) you
> can forget the shadows and dot3 bump mapping and possibly the
> unified lighting model. that would make the game look pretty different
> IMO (and not in a good way).
Shadows are most certainly doable. You'd likely lose the bump-mapping but OTOH they might be able to increase poly counts on characters. It wouldn't have to look bad, just different. Unified lighting is a buzz word. Everything can be lit per-vertex and still be unified.
> I don't recall that.
I wouldn't expect you to.
> I remrmber them saying that they weren't sure about gamecube since
> they didn't know much about the hardware.
Meaning that the will to port it is there.
The exact quote:
"A lot of ppl have asked about GameCube or PlayStation 2 or any other hardware apart from the Xbox and I think it is really too hard to... too early to tell at this point. Um, I don't know that the PlayStation 2 hardware is gonna be capable of presenting the type of experience that we believe is crucial to what we're trying to build within Doom 3. GameCube has some potential there but there's a lot of unanswered technical questions... uh, that we just have to cross those bridges when we get to them a little bit further down the road."
> What makes you so much more certain thant carmack??
Precedence.
> IF the game is ever ported to PS2 (which i don't think will happen) you
> can forget the shadows and dot3 bump mapping and possibly the
> unified lighting model. that would make the game look pretty different
> IMO (and not in a good way).
Shadows are most certainly doable. You'd likely lose the bump-mapping but OTOH they might be able to increase poly counts on characters. It wouldn't have to look bad, just different. Unified lighting is a buzz word. Everything can be lit per-vertex and still be unified.
Quit acting like an ass, for once please... Obviously you don't remember what they said, becuase the quote you posted completely proves my point. They "never" said they were porting to PS2 or gamecube right now.
Meaning that they haven't made a decision, or even said "yes" we'll port it. Try reading the quote again.
Thanks for proving my point. They didn't say they were going to port it.
BS is more like it. They never came right out and said yes, we're doing a port to PS2 and gamecube at this point. You even proved what I said already that they were unsure of the gamecube and didn't think the PS2 hardware could handle it. Next time, perhaps you should read what you're quoting first, no?
As I said you'd lose those features. I didn't say it couldn't be done... Obviously it would look nothing like the real version of the game on PS2.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Yup, his exact wording was pretty much, its a go on the Xbox, and they are looking into the other consoles. That means, dont hold your breath.
marconelly!
Veteran
Actually, it can and it's been done in some games.
But yeah, this is very likely true.
marconelly! said:
The devs here have mentioned that the GS can do multiple passes for dot3 effects, but they've never said anything about perpixel lighting.
Infact, I remember a SH2 thread where faf said the best course of action would be to break up the vertices to get to a 'nearly' perpixel level.
Qroach:
> Obviously you don't remember what they said, becuase the quote you
> posted completely proves my point.
Obviously I do.
> They "never" said they were porting to PS2 or gamecube right now.
I didn't say they were. I said it might be ported to Cube and that my personal belief is that it will also be ported to PS2.
You do realize btw that the Xbox port isn't being done till the PC version is finished, right?
> Try reading the quote again.
Try reading my post again.
> They didn't say they were going to port it.
Nor did I claim that it was absolutely guaranteed that they would.
> Obviously it would look nothing like the real version of the game on PS2.
Not everyone thinks Doom III looks fantastic. If they boosted poly counts on characters and implemented soft shadows SH3 style I'm sure plenty of PS2 owners would be more than happy with that.
zurich:
> The devs here have mentioned that the GS can do multiple passes for
> dot3 effects, but they've never said anything about perpixel lighting.
Bump-mapping is a subset of per-pixel lighting.
> Obviously you don't remember what they said, becuase the quote you
> posted completely proves my point.
Obviously I do.
> They "never" said they were porting to PS2 or gamecube right now.
I didn't say they were. I said it might be ported to Cube and that my personal belief is that it will also be ported to PS2.
You do realize btw that the Xbox port isn't being done till the PC version is finished, right?
> Try reading the quote again.
Try reading my post again.
> They didn't say they were going to port it.
Nor did I claim that it was absolutely guaranteed that they would.
> Obviously it would look nothing like the real version of the game on PS2.
Not everyone thinks Doom III looks fantastic. If they boosted poly counts on characters and implemented soft shadows SH3 style I'm sure plenty of PS2 owners would be more than happy with that.
zurich:
> The devs here have mentioned that the GS can do multiple passes for
> dot3 effects, but they've never said anything about perpixel lighting.
Bump-mapping is a subset of per-pixel lighting.
marconelly!
Veteran
It's been done in some games so it's clearly possible. Faf, has also mentioned several times there are no real technical limitations for it. MGS2 has some rooms (and I remember the dark tunnel on the tanker is one of them) that definitely have per pixel lighting going on, as you lit the surroundings with the light on yor USP gun.
Obviosuly you DON'T, since you can't simply remrmber what you 've written from post to post in the same thread.
No you said exactly this...
"Doom III will be ported to other consoles."
and
"Todd Hollenshead said it might be ported to the Cube."
Two things that are not ture at all. Todd Hollenshead did NOT say that it "might" be ported to the cube.
Why so I can keep finding you contradicting yourself? no thanks...
No you only said that it WAS getting ported to other consles. Which is not true.
I don't feel you know what you're talking about...
Qroach:
> "Doom III will be ported to other consoles."
Yes... it is my strong belief that it will.
> Todd Hollenshead did NOT say that it "might" be ported to the cube.
No but that is the logical interpretation. The gist of his statement is that they want to port it but don't know if it is possible. That very much ads up to a "might".
> Why so I can keep finding you contradicting yourself? no thanks...
Just because you imagine it so doesn't mean that it is so. Learn to read.
> No you only said that it WAS getting ported to other consles. Which is
> not true.
Are you really so fucking dense that you can't make the distinction between personal opinions and facts. Yes, I do believe Doom III will whored around like any id game before it. And I do reserve the right to correct any ignorant Xbot who thinks Doom III is a confirmed Xbox exclusive.
And if we're going to get technical Doom III has never been formally announced for Xbox. So far there is only one version of Doom III, the one for PC. So please STFU.
> "Doom III will be ported to other consoles."
Yes... it is my strong belief that it will.
> Todd Hollenshead did NOT say that it "might" be ported to the cube.
No but that is the logical interpretation. The gist of his statement is that they want to port it but don't know if it is possible. That very much ads up to a "might".
> Why so I can keep finding you contradicting yourself? no thanks...
Just because you imagine it so doesn't mean that it is so. Learn to read.
> No you only said that it WAS getting ported to other consles. Which is
> not true.
Are you really so fucking dense that you can't make the distinction between personal opinions and facts. Yes, I do believe Doom III will whored around like any id game before it. And I do reserve the right to correct any ignorant Xbot who thinks Doom III is a confirmed Xbox exclusive.
And if we're going to get technical Doom III has never been formally announced for Xbox. So far there is only one version of Doom III, the one for PC. So please STFU.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Actually, the Xbox version of Doom 3 was announced officially about 2 months ago.
Sorry PS2 guys, you are living in denial, its ok to love your pS2, it has the most good games, it has so many its a must own platform, just stop trying to pretend it holds its own against the other systems, I like my gamebest, but I dont really believe its as strong as the Xbox, but I can live with that just fine, because the series I want are mainly on GC, and its not like I cant go get an Xbox if I really want the power(and I probally will, just for True Fantasy...I am in love with the look of that game).
Image Quality is important to me, I dont care how low poly something is as long as its crisp.. and crisp is a word you will never hear in describing a PS2 game, Pixelated?, sure, Murky? why not... but its not pretty.
Sorry PS2 guys, you are living in denial, its ok to love your pS2, it has the most good games, it has so many its a must own platform, just stop trying to pretend it holds its own against the other systems, I like my gamebest, but I dont really believe its as strong as the Xbox, but I can live with that just fine, because the series I want are mainly on GC, and its not like I cant go get an Xbox if I really want the power(and I probally will, just for True Fantasy...I am in love with the look of that game).
Image Quality is important to me, I dont care how low poly something is as long as its crisp.. and crisp is a word you will never hear in describing a PS2 game, Pixelated?, sure, Murky? why not... but its not pretty.
"Your strong belief" that doesn't have a foot to stand on. Fine it's your belief, that's why you keep changing your story I suppose.
No it's Not the logical interpretation. there's no "logic in anything you've been arguing about in this thread. It's nothing but pipe ream from a fanboy IMO. If he actually said it was getting ported, then he'd come aout and say that.
I actually CAN read. You however can't if you really believe Id's CEO said the game was coming to the cube from the statement you posted.
You stated personal opinion as fact cubite. I can see you don't like to be proved wrong, even though you completely contradicted yourself. You can believe it will, but in all the other cases Id told people their game was being ported specifically to platform X. In this case they haven't said anything you claim they did.
...and I reserve the right to correct a ignorant fanboy cubie that doesn't now what the fuck he's talking about.
Actually it has been formally annouced. As if you need anything more formal then to hear Carmack saying it's going to be done. Carmack is going to do the port himself. This is the second time you tried to deflect the argument into a different direction. You are still wrong. even the bloddy Quote from the CEo is enough to prove that. So please grow up and STFU yourself cubie.
zidane1strife
Banned
Heheh, u haven't been playing many ps2 games have u? Many of them have AA as good as any other h/w outhere in terms of the end results... The textures are quite decent, and good in some of them... and progressive is already being supported in some games, and will be in future games...
marconelly!
Veteran
Hmmm, maybe you should take a look again. It's almost definitely not a vertex lighting. It looks nothing like method used in Silent Hill 2 on PS2 and there are no geometry revealing no matter where you point you light source. You can also move the light cone pixel by pixel and observe how it preserves it's shape perfectly. You can't move the light up and down in MGS2 but there are many places in that corridor with flat walls and the light projects on them without any geometry artifacting you would expect no matter how subdivided the surfaces might be.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Uhm, you are aware that SH2 is on PC now, with better graphics than the pS2 version.. and even on a GF2 card(with no pixel effects), the game has all the perks of the PS2 version?
marconelly!
Veteran
Uhm, and your contribution to the discussion is...?
Actually, it looks worse than the PS2 version in some ways, most notably the shadows, which look completely unnatural, with softness removed. It has per pixel lighting like the Xbox version, though.
GF2 cards do have pixel effects, btw. they just haven't been largely marketed.
