2 PlayStation Moves standard vs Kinect is 2 Moves better than Kinect @ it's own game?

[Silent_Buddha]

more like it still has track of you head but thinks that your legs & feet are still in the old spot so it make the player lean over with his hands out but that's mostly just the big jumps to the side but if I step to ether side with one leg & lean & punch it still has track of where my body is or if I step up ,

you're controlling where your head upper body & hands are with your real life movements but the legs & feet stays in the middle of the screen,

pressing circle lets the game know where your feet are since you're not controlling the player movements with your feet.

And something like that just makes me wonder how people can think it is thus beating Kinect at its own game (whatever that means).

Kinect does some things exceeding well, while Move does some things exceedingly well. I'm not sure this goes anywhere with showing Move doing body tracking better than Kinect.

I'm not sure why it has to be a competition between the two in the first place. While there is certainly some overlap in abilities of the two systems, they are both quite obviously targetting different things.

Regards,
SB

 

[onQ]

And something like that just makes me wonder how people can think it is thus beating Kinect at its own game (whatever that means).

Kinect does some things exceeding well, while Move does some things exceedingly well. I'm not sure this goes anywhere with showing Move doing body tracking better than Kinect.

I'm not sure why it has to be a competition between the two in the first place. While there is certainly some overlap in abilities of the two systems, they are both quite obviously targetting different things.

Regards,
SB

I didn't say it was doing body tracking better than Kinect I said can it do the games better if the dev use the 2 controller standard and make the game from the ground up with the 2 controller set up in mind.

the games that I'm talking about don't need for you to be moving all over the room so how is that even a knock against what I said?

the only game that I have played on kinect that really take advantage of moving both your feet in 3d space so far was 20000 leaks & even then you're not really moving too far from where you started from .

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

I'm not sure why it has to be a competition between the two in the first place. While there is certainly some overlap in abilities of the two systems, they are both quite obviously targetting different things.

I thought both were targeting the same thing. The difference being that one is, also, targeting more than one target.

 

[onQ]

before I was distracted by hands that sweat from holding a controller & not being able to walk around your room when playing a game,

I was asking could devs make Kinect like games that control with your real life movements just as good if not better if they make the games from the ground up using 2 Move controllers?


because from what I'm seeing The Fight is doing just as good if not a better job at controlling a on screen Avatar than all the Kinect games, & it's the only Move game to be made from the ground up using 2 Move controllers so I just want to see how other games would come out if they created them from the ground up using 2 move controllers & the PlayStation Eye.

 

[ct03]

because from what I'm seeing The Fight is doing just as good if not a better job at controlling a on screen Avatar than all the Kinect games, & it's the only Move game to be made from the ground up using 2 Move controllers

Why do you think the second move controller matters so much? Now you're tracking two wrists instead of one, but for all other joints the system still has to rely on 2D tracking with all its limitations.

I could show you a myriad of ways to make the Avatar do movements that don't match yours AT ALL. The only reason why you think it's doing so well is because you follow the instructions. Get into a different stance (e.g. one leg forward, one leg back, bending the knees) and see how well the Avatar reflects this.

 

[Arwin]

Why do you think the second move controller matters so much? Now you're tracking two wrists instead of one, but for all other joints the system still has to rely on 2D tracking with all its limitations.

I could show you a myriad of ways to make the Avatar do movements that don't match yours AT ALL. The only reason why you think it's doing so well is because you follow the instructions. Get into a different stance (e.g. one leg forward, one leg back, bending the knees) and see how well the Avatar reflects this.

The reason two Move controllers is important is because with full orientation and rotation tracking, not only can you track arms and wrists in fine detail, but it is also enough to get a good impression of the position of the whole upper body.

What you don't get versus Kinect is leg movement and head-tracking. Head tracking works fairly well in The Fight, provided that you have a white wall behind you. Any other conditions will cause it to fall down. GT5 is very similar in that regard, but also requires you to have the camera very close to you.

When the head-tracking works, upper body tracking is very good in the fight though, and this is where OnQ's comments sound true the most, as it is pretty much lag-free, and the detail and precision is pretty fantastic.

Check out this video that I made where you can compare my body with the game as they're shot in one camera angle and my body and my avatars body are at a very comparable angle, with head-tracking disabled:

 

[ct03]

The reason two Move controllers is important is because with full orientation and rotation tracking, not only can you track arms and wrists in fine detail, but it is also enough to get a good impression of the position of the whole upper body.

As an approximation in this particular case (assumption: stationary body) it works. The Move trackers simply control the character's arm IK, and the torso is rotated by guesstimation.

But of course you can move your body without moving your hands and wrists at all. Place both of your hands against a wall and don't move them. Then try out the massive range of motion your body still has.
There is a reason why motion capture suits feature more trackers than just two for the wrists and two for the ankles.

My comment was in reply to somebody who said that this system does "as good if not a better job at controlling a on screen Avatar than all the Kinect games." Granted, I have not tried any Kinect games, but the system's potential far exceeds Move's body tracking capabilities.

 

[onQ]

Why do you think the second move controller matters so much? Now you're tracking two wrists instead of one, but for all other joints the system still has to rely on 2D tracking with all its limitations.

I could show you a myriad of ways to make the Avatar do movements that don't match yours AT ALL. The only reason why you think it's doing so well is because you follow the instructions. Get into a different stance (e.g. one leg forward, one leg back, bending the knees) and see how well the Avatar reflects this.

Because you have a 2nd hands

because it gives the game more data to work with knowing where both hands are & how your wrist work helps with the body & head tracking because it knows that your body can't be too far away

I'm pretty sure thats important when playing a game

by the way it knows when your knees are bent because you're no longer tall as you was before so it ducks down with you using the data that it has from knowing where your head & hands are,

now should I do the hokey pokey & turn myself around?

you do know that when you bend down & go to your knees & stuff with kinect that the tracking sometimes flips out right? so why is it such a big deal now?

you're talking to someone that bought PlayStation Move & Kinect on day one.

I would show you people what happens when you try to do some of this stuff that you say you can't do with 2 moves with Kinect but my nephew's 360 put rings around the kinect games that I had ,

so I would like to see one of you load up kinect & play a game & walk from 10 feet away up to inches away from kinect without the game telling you , you need to move.

& I bet you say to yourself what's the point of being able to walk around your room trying to play a game?

 

[onQ]

As an approximation in this particular case (assumption: stationary body) it works. The Move trackers simply control the character's arm IK, and the torso is rotated by guesstimation.

But of course you can move your body without moving your hands and wrists at all. Place both of your hands against a wall and don't move them. Then try out the massive range of motion your body still has.
There is a reason why motion capture suits feature more trackers than just two for the wrists and two for the ankles.

My comment was in reply to somebody who said that this system does "as good if not a better job at controlling a on screen Avatar than all the Kinect games." Granted, I have not tried any Kinect games, but the system's potential far exceeds Move's body tracking capabilities.

the only problem with that is when you're playing a game you want it to move with you with no delay for things like jumping & dodging, I'm talking about games here not motion capture

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't think you can judge either Kinect or Move based on the software that is out right now. They are both very new, and the pros and cons of each should be well understood by now.

 

[onQ]

I don't think you can judge either Kinect or Move based on the software that is out right now. They are both very new, and the pros and cons of each should be well understood by now.

I'm not judging them off of what's out here now I'm talking about the potential of games being made with 2 moves for avatar controlling ,

I know things will get better for Move & Kinect I love the technology & always keep my eye on this stuff even before everyone else jumped on the bandwagon after the Wii.

I'm just seeing the end result of 2 moves & body tracking from the Playstation Eye in a game (the fight) working better than the end result of the Kinect games that I have played & it raises a question about if other devs can make more games that work in this same way that work just as good as the kinect games that play in the same way.

as I'm doing the jump squats in The Fight that only use 2 moves to track my movements I'm thinking how much better this feels than jumping in the kinect games only to feel like I'm jumping under water or something because even though it's only using the 2 moves for controlling the avatar he is moving in-sync with me as I do the jumps I'm not watching the avatar jump as I'm on my way down.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I still don't see what good that comparison is really doing. You're trying to guess at how Kinect is going to get, and how good Move is going to get to know which one is going to be better in the future, for a few select activities, when the answer is basically that you can't know. Most of what makes Move and Kinect tick is software, and the software will improve over time. Because the skeletal tracking works a certain way in Kinect Sports, doesn't mean it won't be better in Kinect Sports 2 or another game. Same goes for Move with Sports Champion or whatever. If you compare Kinect Sports to Kinect Adventures, Sports is far less laggy, and far better at tracking movements, so there is even variation amongst launch titles. The other question I have, for something like jump squats, is how well the Fight is actually tracking your form, compared to an exercise title that might do the same thing. Honestly, I think you're basically posing a question that can't be answered. The proof will be in the pudding, and the pudding isn't here yet.

 

[onQ]

I still don't see what good that comparison is really doing. You're trying to guess at how Kinect is going to get, and how good Move is going to get to know which one is going to be better in the future, for a few select activities, when the answer is basically that you can't know. Most of what makes Move and Kinect tick is software, and the software will improve over time. Because the skeletal tracking works a certain way in Kinect Sports, doesn't mean it won't be better in Kinect Sports 2 or another game. Same goes for Move with Sports Champion or whatever. If you compare Kinect Sports to Kinect Adventures, Sports is far less laggy, and far better at tracking movements, so there is even variation amongst launch titles. The other question I have, for something like jump squats, is how well the Fight is actually tracking your form, compared to an exercise title that might do the same thing. Honestly, I think you're basically posing a question that can't be answered. The proof will be in the pudding, and the pudding isn't here yet.

I think people got too caught up in the Kinect vs Move part of this thread what I'm talking about is Devs making Kinect like games using the 2 moves & PlayStation Eye with the end result being just as good & sometimes better because of not having any delay in the movements & better control over the hand movements.


for example: you would think that Move couldn't do a running & hurdle jumping game as good as Kinect because it has full body 3D tracking

but when you think about it the games can't really track how fast you're running because you're running in 1 spot it's only using your legs up & down movements not really getting the 3D info that shows how fast you can run , so what's stopping the Devs from making a game that use the Data from how fast you're moving your feet & the Move controllers to simulate how fast you're running & using the data from your head & the move controllers going up in the air from you jumping to use for the hurdle jumps.

if the speed of you running is just being simulated by how fast you're moving your legs up & down anyway I think the one that's giving me a better reaction time is going to be the better end result.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I believe you could do Kinect Sports on Move with 2 controllers probably very well, because in most cases form is not very important, and neither is front to back movement. That said, one of the best parts of Sports is the incredibly good puppeteering to coincide with trash-talking your friends.

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[onQ]

You're in luck! You can always download the trial version of each game using LIVE. No disc or money required.

no hard drive & I'm only on a Wifi internet connection right now so even if I had the hard drive I couldn't download the demos,

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[onQ]

You don't need a HDD, you can use any thumb drive. And I guess you have the 360 without wifi built-in. If so, you can't TEMPORARILY run 1 cat 5 to do your experiement? Once the game is on your drive, you don't need the connection anymore.

slow wifi as in coming from my friends house like a football field away if the router was in my house I would simply hook the game up in the room with the router & would have never said I was on wifi ( no I'm not stealing internet my cable bill got out of hand & a lot of other stuff was going on & we had to let it go & my friend is never home now & he gave me the password to the wifi to use) (why I'm telling you all this I don't know)

it's not really something that I would have to show anyone because if you have played the games you already know that you can't move too close or it can't do the full body tracking because it needs to see enough of your body but it's not a big deal because when you're playing games you should be focused on the TV so you shouldn't be moving back & forth anyway so I don't get why people tried to use that against The Fight in the 1st place.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think most people were under the impression that Move's calibration would be broken unless you kept your feet in the same place. It's been repeated in many reviews and editorials on Move and Move games. So I don't think anyone was attacking Move; They were just going on information they were given. I don't think anyone expects full body tracking to work standing one or two feet from Kinect or PS Eye. Obviously both solutions would have to see your entire body to know where all of your pieces are.

 

[onQ]

I think most people were under the impression that Move's calibration would be broken unless you kept your feet in the same place. It's been repeated in many reviews and editorials on Move and Move games. So I don't think anyone was attacking Move; They were just going on information they were given. I don't think anyone expects full body tracking to work standing one or two feet from Kinect or PS Eye. Obviously both solutions would have to see your entire body to know where all of your pieces are.

that's what I find strange because the Kinect games also tell you that you need to be in a certain area but when The fight said to stand in a certain area the reviewers , media & people on forums used that against the game & people bring it up over & over again.

& I'm pretty sure if I wouldn't have made that video it would have been brought up a few more times in this thread.