1 Million Xbox 360s to be Banned

[Acert93]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33866696/ns/technology_and_science-games/

Seems there is some debate on whether it will be users or the actual console. Of interesting note this pretty much includes any software or unauthorized hardware. It will be interesting what penalty they dole out for various issues. Non-licensed memory cards, controllers, modded rapid fire controllers, user installed HDDs (same model/firmware updated even), etc could create an interesting situation of how MS detects these issues and if it is a brick for every infraction (e.g. used a Datel memory card? Bricked Console) or if they will limit it to user accounts.

Could cause a very nasty back lash if users who bought products and lose their Live account and purchased content. e.g. Bought a previously blacklisted console or unlicensed/modded device 2nd hand from GS etc and lose $100s of dollars of legitimate content.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

It's already happened here.

 

[Rangers]

They dont exactly brick the consoles, they just cant connect to Live.

Anyway, this is the only real recourse they have to stop piracy. It's basically operating on the same principle why WoW makes millions while most PC games are heavily pirated.

BTW, I thought datel memory cards and such were not banned. I suspect as much.

There is about 33 million Xbox 360's in the world, so I guess modded console rates may be around 3% judging by this.

Edit: I guess my figuring is false because, this is not the first ban wave they've done.

 

[flynn]

I know a couple of people whose consoles have been banned when they started playing the pirated COD:MW2 that's floating around. I'd say well deserved.

Maybe we'll see a bunch of cheap xboxes showing up on Ebay :smile:

 

[Gerry]

Anyone feeling sympathetic towards this fine upstanding individual?

Poor him. Life is soooo unfair.

 

[Acert93]

I took it into a shop [the Xbox], there was a guy back there and I asked him and he did it for me [chipped it]. He charged £75 to get it chipped but at the end of the day I said to myself I'll pay £75 to get it chipped, after two games I've paid the money back.
I've probably saved about £600 and I've copied roughly 30 or 40 games. A lot of them I've downloaded or I've taken off friends that have downloaded themselves.
To be honest, I've contemplated whether to move to Playstation 3 or buy another Xbox. I wouldn't do it again but I really don't know if I'm going to get the Xbox again now."

Why get an Xbox? You already played all the games for free!

I am more concerned about people who simply put in a bigger HDD and attempted no piracy. You could argue they were hurting MS by not buying expensive HDDs. On the other hand if that ment they could DL more DLC, DirectDownload games, movies, XBLA titles, etc--without constant re-downloading of such ($$$) I am not sure it hurts MS and it isn't a piracy issue as claimed.

Glad I didn't do the HDD swap. I was tempted (my 20GB errr 13GB HDD has been full since week 2 of owning the thing!)

 

[Richard]

Like I read earlier today, this move does put into question the notion that "Piracy is (only) a PC problem".

About the article Gerry linked to: it's amazing it took 10 paragraphs in for a (veiled) admission of any wrong-doing showed up. Even then, he goes on to say that

I've probably saved about £600 and I've copied roughly 30 or 40 games. A lot of them I've downloaded or I've taken off friends that have downloaded themselves.

No apology, no self-realisation of the damage piracy does to the industry. And he's mad he got banned. He's a 25 year old brat, that's what he is. I want, I want, I want, I want, me, me, me, me, now, now, now, now! Will someone please invent a "shotgun-blast-to-the-face-through-ip" application please?

 

[Acert93]

Like I read earlier today, this move does put into question the notion that "Piracy is (only) a PC problem".

Piracy has always been a problem on consoles. The issue is one of magnitude. e.g. This looks like sub-3%. Of your "traditional" PC gamers, what % of PCs are used to pirate games?

No apology, no self-realisation of the damage piracy does to the industry. And he's mad he got banned. He's a 25 year old brat, that's what he is. I want, I want, I want, I want, me, me, me, me, now, now, now, now! Will someone please invent a "shotgun-blast-to-the-face-through-ip" application please?

We have seen that same justification on B3D, and not just from stupid brat-uneducated-25yo. When you see peeps with advanced CS degrees and $400+ GPUs and huge displays making these arguements of entitlement and justification it makes you

But hey, you can now also pay $ to get your grades changed, officially!

 

[JPT]

But I guess this is indicative of how people look at it, its not I commited a crime* and earned £600 from it, but its I did something smart and saved £600.

*Crime depends on how you view it, but in my book its illegal ie you commited a crime.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Its not really punishing the pirates though is it? They can still buy a new 360 and then transfer their profile over. Get themselves banned again and just do the same thing over and over again. MS doesn't really care because they are just generating extra revenue from selling more 360's, the banned ones don't care because they just sell the bricked machines to some poor sap who ends up with some upset kids.

 

[JardeL]

Anyway, this is the only real recourse they have to stop piracy.

Stop piracy ? No way, people are still playing pirated games on their banned consoles [ SP ] and playing MP on their "legal" console or PS3.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Edit: I guess my figuring is false because, this is not the first ban wave they've done.

And not everyone wants to connect to Live. Someone getting an X360 for single player only is a lot more likely to be tempted to mod his box and pirate games.

Then again Live is cheap enough and good broadband is available almost everywhere now, so we can't really tell. AFAIK there are about 25 million Live users by now or so...?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Also, does anyone else think that this might be a well timed move to increase MS's hardware sales for the holiday period? If just one half of these guys decides to replace their consoles, that's already quite a boost.
Although the used consoles flooding the market could also take away customers from the new ones, at least to some level...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No apology, no self-realisation of the damage piracy does to the industry. And he's mad he got banned. He's a 25 year old brat, that's what he is. I want, I want, I want, I want, me, me, me, me, now, now, now, now! Will someone please invent a "shotgun-blast-to-the-face-through-ip" application please?

They also don't draw analogies with other situations. "I can't afford to go go-karting/play golf/watch the cinema every weekend, so I'll break in and use the stuff for free." They have nothing to be mad about, having broken the terms of the service they subscribe to. Tough, and well done MS for taking this strong stance.

One does wonder though, why 1 million now, instead of dribs and drabs throughout the year? Is it a case of a million illegal COD copies?

 

[Richard]

Piracy has always been a problem on consoles. The issue is one of magnitude. e.g. This looks like sub-3%. Of your "traditional" PC gamers, what % of PCs are used to pirate games?

Magnitudes matter but so do absolute numbers. If (XBOX numbers alone) 1 million people have modded their console that's a significant number when you have (block-buster) games that sell only 3 times as much. But let me turn that around: the % of PC users that don't pirate > number of legit consoles for the simple reason there are a lot more total PCs in existence. Anyone can lie with statistics, etc. etc.

Anyway, my point is that when publishers/developers speak of console piracy they always qualify it as negligible/non-existent/whatever when we now know that in the course of the XBOX360's lifetime probably 1.5 million consoles have been banned. 3% or no, that's a significant number of pirates. If they're insignificant why is Microsoft going through the trouble of banning them, then?

And no, I don't believe Laa-Yosh's conspiracy theories.

We have seen that same justification on B3D, and not just from stupid brat-uneducated-25yo. When you see peeps with advanced CS degrees and $400+ GPUs and huge displays making these arguements of entitlement and justification it makes you

About video card prices you mean? All they do is complain, they'll still either pay or not get to enjoy the new hardware.

 

[obonicus]

Like I read earlier today, this move does put into question the notion that "Piracy is (only) a PC problem".

I think part of the issue is the fact that the platform holder is going out of their way to guarantee the publisher's IP. There's no such guarantee, and any attempt at DRM is viciously resisted.

 

[Richard]

They also don't draw analogies with other situations. "I can't afford to go go-karting/play golf/watch the cinema every weekend, so I'll break in and use the stuff for free." They have nothing to be mad about, having broken the terms of the service they subscribe to.

JPT is probably correct in that most people will try (and succeed) to rationalise their choice to pirate games:

1) I'm out of a job (why play games instead of looking for another job then?)
2) Games are too expensive (they'll only get more expensive if piracy keeps increasing)
3) This company is evil (go into law-enforcement instead)
4) I can't be arsed to go to the store (do the world a favour and drop dead).
5) I want to play it badly (There's no eleventh commandment that says 'though shalt play Modern Warfare 2').

Another reason is that the risk versus reward is just too slanted. If there was just a 5% change your console/PC literally imploded when you put in a warezed disc I'm sure most would think twice before doing it.

One does wonder though, why 1 million now, instead of dribs and drabs throughout the year? Is it a case of a million illegal COD copies?

I believe that regardless of what publishers/developers say in public, they've been putting the heat on MS after a few 0-day (even before PC!) warez releases.

 

[Acert93]

About video card prices you mean? All they do is complain, they'll still either pay or not get to enjoy the new hardware.

No, I have in mind a couple posters who have, or had, top end GPUs but would still pirate games.

Anyhow, I don't disagree about stats being slanted. e.g. If I had to take a stab:

* Most Console games outsell PC counterparts
* A much higher % of PC gamers pirate than Console gamers
* A much higher % of priated-versus-purchased units on PC versus Consoles
* A higher # of Units Pirated on the Console versus the PC

So % Console Piracy is a lower percentage than the PC market for similar games, the total number stolen games is more on the Consoles due to a larger number of pirates. Of course the consoles are dedicated console devices, so you have 1M pirates, but you also have 30M+ non-pirate potential consumers.

iirc A while back it was said something like CoD4 MW1 sold 1.5M on the PC yet over half of the people playing online were with Pirated versions.

I don't think it would be shocking if it turned out that the smaller PC market had more pirated versions of CoD4 MW1 than the 360. But that doesn't mean Activision doesn't want to capture even a small % of those console gamers who are pirating. Even if only 10% turn around and buy MW2, that could be 100k units.

 

[joker454]

Anyway, my point is that when publishers/developers speak of console piracy they always qualify it as negligible/non-existent/whatever when we now know that in the course of the XBOX360's lifetime probably 1.5 million consoles have been banned. 3% or no, that's a significant number of pirates. If they're insignificant why is Microsoft going through the trouble of banning them, then?

It's significant, but a drop in the bucket compared to the PC piracy side. I've seen the numbers through a publisher friend, they are brutal. Some PC titles with 80%+ piracy, PC games with high metacritic ratings that people on forums think were successful yet they actually lost money due to piracy (can't name names but trust me, you know them). The PC piracy problem often happens right in the duplication/distribution chain, meaning the game gets out on torrents in huge numbers before it's even released. Between that and no real way to stop pirates on PC, it puts the PC in a league of it's own when it comes to piracy. There's a reason why the PC can rarely support AAA games on it's own now.

Also, does anyone else think that this might be a well timed move to increase MS's hardware sales for the holiday period? If just one half of these guys decides to replace their consoles, that's already quite a boost.
Although the used consoles flooding the market could also take away customers from the new ones, at least to some level...

I'm guessing it was more to be timed with the MW2 release.

 

[JardeL]

Also, does anyone else think that this might be a well timed move to increase MS's hardware sales for the holiday period? If just one half of these guys decides to replace their consoles, that's already quite a boost.

I do. I think this is pretty much related to PS3 Slim's strong sales.

Biggest banwave ever just before MW2 release and $100 Walmart sale can't be coincidence imho.

Allowing the piracy is the best way to sell / spread worldwide, and MS did this in purpose imo [ like Windows ] . In Turkey, lots of people [ I mean tens of thousands ] choosing X360 just because of piracy. PS2 was&is so popular too.