Web speculation around a 360 wagglewand grows

[Shifty Geezer]

I thought that the general idea (of a wand which translates the movement into the screen and the direction your pointing at) can also be patended.

You can't patent an idea : only specific implementations. The way to cover an idea is to patent every possible implementation of it. Another example implementation could be Sony using a wand prop with LEDs read by EyeToy, combined with inbuilt motion sensing.

As for such inclusion on XB360 affecting Wii, I doubt it. MS certainly haven't pushed their camera to any degree so far, and even if the wand is well implemented, Wii has the mind-share. If you want waggle-games, Wii is where you'd go. MS would need to do something amazing to have shoppers decide to get the unknown MS solution over the known Wii solution.

 

[Natoma]

The thing is it doesn't matter. Wii will never be a home for the types of games that most Xbox and PS3 fanbs enjoy.

The biggest impact it could have would be a small decrease in 3rd party titles for the PS3/360 owners.

Never is quite a strong statement. Don't say I didn't warn ye.

* Natoma puts scooby_dooby's comment away in the vault, to be unlocked in a year or so if Wii continues selling as it is.

p.s.: DQ9 on DS instead of PS2/PS3/Xbox 360 should warn you

 

[EndR]

MS did have an "XWand" a couple of years ago.. or atleast experimenting with something like a wand..

The XWand is a novel wireless sensor package that enables styles of natural interaction with intelligent environments. For example, a user may point the wand at a device and control it using simple gestures. The XWand system leverages the intelligence of the ubiquitous computing environment to best determine the user's intention.

(the rest is here)
http://research.microsoft.com/~awilson/wand/default.htm
-----------

In theory, MS would hit a pretty sweet spot IF they can manage to release something along the lines of a Wii-mote.

Corepack + "Xwand" would give the best of the two world at a price that is in the neigbourhood of the price of wii. Nintendo lacks the HD-punch gfx and this would be provided with the 360.

But this is in theory...
It will be interesting to see what MS has up their sleeves though..

 

[Nesh]

You can't patent an idea : only specific implementations. The way to cover an idea is to patent every possible implementation of it. Another example implementation could be Sony using a wand prop with LEDs read by EyeToy, combined with inbuilt motion sensing.

As for such inclusion on XB360 affecting Wii, I doubt it. MS certainly haven't pushed their camera to any degree so far, and even if the wand is well implemented, Wii has the mind-share. If you want waggle-games, Wii is where you'd go. MS would need to do something amazing to have shoppers decide to get the unknown MS solution over the known Wii solution.

Yeah probably you are right

 

[scooby_dooby]

Never is quite a strong statement. Don't say I didn't warn ye.

* Natoma puts scooby_dooby's comment away in the vault, to be unlocked in a year or so if Wii continues selling as it is.

p.s.: DQ9 on DS instead of PS2/PS3/Xbox 360 should warn you

The controls are too simplistic, there's absolutely no way of getting around it, it can't support many of the games on the other consoles.

Not to mention, graphically it's not even close. PS3 and 360 owners want their purty GFX, which is why they shelled out the big bucks.

 

[TheChefO]

The controls are too simplistic, there's absolutely no way of getting around it, it can't support many of the games on the other consoles.

Not to mention, graphically it's not even close. PS3 and 360 owners want their purty GFX, which is why they shelled out the big bucks.

I agree the graphics will always be lacking, but control wise I think there are smarter ways to connect player to in-game character.

If I were in Nintendo's shoes, I'd worry if Sony/MS start packaging a wiimote device in the box...

The consoles are still in their early years and dual analog became the standard ps1 controller even though it didn't come till many years later.

 

[infinity4]

are nintendo lawyers going to do something if either microsoft or sony developes technology similar to that in wiimote???

 

[Natoma]

The controls are too simplistic, there's absolutely no way of getting around it, it can't support many of the games on the other consoles.

Not to mention, graphically it's not even close. PS3 and 360 owners want their purty GFX, which is why they shelled out the big bucks.

Didn't people say the same thing when the DS debuted and the PSP was on the horizon?

 

[TheChefO]

Didn't people say the same thing when the DS debuted and the PSP was on the horizon?

To be fair, the comparisons do not weigh other factors in the mobile space.

-Battery life
-Size
-Weight
-Load times

All of which are critical in the mobile space and all of which are considerably better with DS.

-Backwards Compatability
-Killer apps
-cheaper price

These just add icing to the cake.

In the console realm, the first list doesn't mean so much. The second list does. Innovative control scheme is another, but if others can rip off this design element, and do so legally, I fear for the longevity of Wii.

 

[Natoma]

The only way it would matter is if they replaced the default control scheme with motion sensing like the Wii. And I don't see that happening. It would fragment their base.

PS4/Xbox 720, probably.

In the end, my only point is this. 100% assured declarations of inevitability have been proven wildly incorrect in the past. And there is a good chance that they will be proven incorrect in the future.

The Wii just be virtue of having sold more than half of Xbox 360's installed base, and more than doubled the size of the PS3 install base, is WELL ahead of the prognostications of just 1 year ago. People were foreseeing doom and gloom for Nintendo with the Wii.

So if history is anything to go by, the latest predictions will have egg on their faces too. But I wouldn't say anything for certainty. I deal with possibilities.

Too many people on this forum deal in absolutes.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Didn't people say the same thing when the DS debuted and the PSP was on the horizon?

No. The controls of DS were never considered too simplistic. the doubts came from whether touch screen was anythign more than a gimmick. I think in most games the touch screen hasn't added a great deal, and certainly nothing that can't be mapped well onto existing systems. It's the few touch-centric games that have stood out and given DS momentum.

As for Wii appealing to the hardcore gamer, there's some things they'll need. They'll need some quality FPSes, and hardcore gamers value graphics quality there I think. They need a top class racer, whcih again benefits from top class graphics. They need a top class footy game. The other two consoles should be able to eclipse Wii at that using advanced technologies. HD is also a dig benefit to big-screen multiplayer soccer. I dare say there'll be a number of game types that Wii doesn't handle too well, just as there's other genres Wii handles better than the conventional consoles. Slapping a Wiimote onto the other consoles would elliminate the hardware advantage Wii has in that respect, but Wii's main strength is Nintendo's software. It's like people buying iPod's as much for iTunes as the hardware. Producing a great little MP3 player won't win over customers.

 

[Nesh]

Didn't people say the same thing when the DS debuted and the PSP was on the horizon?

DS and PSP are direct competitors despite its extra "control" functionality, they are both viewed from a small screen thus difference in visuals isnt as noticeable plus DS gets the games without sacrificing or changing anything drastically. It just added on top of something familiar which PSP offers as well

On the other hand Wii and the other 2 are way too different in every way especially in controls and graphics.

Despite that, Wii might sell more but it doesnt necessarilly mean that this would be because of better games (unlike DS vs PSP). Its just that people can get something different cheaply even if they arent dedicated gamers

 

[Natoma]

No. The controls of DS were never considered too simplistic. the doubts came from whether touch screen was anythign more than a gimmick. I think in most games the touch screen hasn't added a great deal, and certainly nothing that can't be mapped well onto existing systems. It's the few touch-centric games that have stood out and given DS momentum.

Whether it's the controls of the DS being gimmicky because no gamer will want to use a stylus, or the controls of the Wii being gimmicky because it's too simplistic and no gamer will want to wave a wand around, the point is that both the DS and Wii were written off prematurely.

As for Wii appealing to the hardcore gamer, there's some things they'll need. They'll need some quality FPSes, and hardcore gamers value graphics quality there I think. They need a top class racer, whcih again benefits from top class graphics. They need a top class footy game. The other two consoles should be able to eclipse Wii at that using advanced technologies. HD is also a dig benefit to big-screen multiplayer soccer. I dare say there'll be a number of game types that Wii doesn't handle too well, just as there's other genres Wii handles better than the conventional consoles. Slapping a Wiimote onto the other consoles would elliminate the hardware advantage Wii has in that respect, but Wii's main strength is Nintendo's software. It's like people buying iPod's as much for iTunes as the hardware. Producing a great little MP3 player won't win over customers.

Does the DS only appeal to hard core gamers? Does it have to?

What about the PSP?

As for the Wiimote functionality, I addressed that point in my last post. It just won't happen. Not as a default control scheme, not this generation. Next generation, I can definitely see it.

 

[Natoma]

DS and PSP are direct competitors, they are both viewed from a small screen thus difference in visuals isnt as noticeable plus DS gets the games

On the other hand Wii and the other 2 are way too different in every way especially in controls and graphics.

Despite that, Wii might sell more but it doesnt necessarilly mean that this would be because of better games (unlike DS vs PSP). Its just that people can get something different cheaply even if they arent dedicated gamers

Hindsight is 20/20 Nesh. That isn't the kind of argument one heard when the PSP was looming and the DS was doing well, but not nearly as mindblowingly so as it is now. It was all about no one caring about dual screens and a gimmicky stylus. The graphics of the PSP and storage capabilities along with media would obliterate the DS. That was the argument.

That's just the point I'm making. The future can't be seen. Yet people seem to want to deal only in absolutes. If the DS/PSP battle has shown us anything, and the Wii's success to date, it's that people should be very wary of making these kinds of prognostications.

 

[Nesh]

Hindsight is 20/20 Nesh. That isn't the kind of arguments one heard when the PSP was looming and the DS was doing well, but not nearly as mindblowingly so as it is now.

That's just the point I'm making. The future can't be seen. Yet people seem to want to deal only in absolutes. If the DS/PSP battle has shown us anything, and the Wii's success to date, it's that people should be very wary of making these kinds of prognostications.

Oh ok I can live with that. I agree.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The future can't be seen. Yet people seem to want to deal only in absolutes...

As for the Wiimote functionality, I addressed that point in my last post. It just won't happen.

The future is uncertain, but there's some things sensible reasoning can pin at a high or low probability. eg. If Wii launched at $2000 a console, I could predict with certainty that it wouldn't sell well!

 

[Natoma]

The reason why I stated that is because a company has already dived into the realm of fragmenting its base, with catastrophic results.

It's called Sega.

That is a fact of business. Trying to state certainties about the future based on gamer tastes is impossible.

 

[Rangers]

are nintendo lawyers going to do something if either microsoft or sony developes technology similar to that in wiimote???

Dont know..they'll probably try.

Moore said this, whatever it is, was in development before revolution, so presumably ms patented everything they could related to it at that time.

Also, ms had a pc motion control joystick years ago, so they might have some patentage related to that to stand on..

 

[TheChefO]

The reason why I stated that is because a company has already dived into the realm of fragmenting its base, with catastrophic results.

It's called Sega.

That is a fact of business. Trying to state certainties about the future based on gamer tastes is impossible.

I agree in general, but ps1 switched default controllers midway and seemed to be successful. If either one leave it as a periph, I agree it will be a non issue. However, if either one packs their wii-mote-ripoff in the box, it could get ugly.

Personally I love that Nintendo is stickin it to the big dogs of the industry and seems poised to be back on top. But 3rd Party dev support is still slacking at this point and this in the face of record sales. Shouldn't we be hearing crazy things from 3rd party devs now about their support for Wii? Why the long delayed (nonexistant) reaction?

Do they know something we don't, are they stubborn or just waiting for the right time to announce full support?

 

[Rangers]

The reason why I stated that is because a company has already dived into the realm of fragmenting its base, with catastrophic results.

It's called Sega.

That is a fact of business. Trying to state certainties about the future based on gamer tastes is impossible.

I dont think a wii-mote add on would hurt 360 in the least.

It wont take away from the core, gamepad, hardcore FPS gamer experience, which coincidentally, has served the 360 to some pretty solid sales.

But, I'm not sure a add on would really change the image of the console into some kid-friendly funbox either. It's still going to be an expensive, hi-def, complex piece of equipment.

I'm not threatened in the least though, if microsoft chooses to explore this in some way. If anything I'm a bit intrigued, as I've never played a Wii, and have wondered what the experience is like. Maybe I'll get that chance without buying another system.