Love + friendship = problems...

[_xxx_]

I have a strange new problem. I never had any troubles talking to girls, seduction always worked fine and so on. Had many, could write books about it.

But this is a special case. There is this girl I really like. I know her since last year and just now I'm kinda falling in love with her, but have absolutely no idea how to pull it off, since we're quite good friends.

And the problem is, because of that I get all clumsy and stupid every time I'm with her. I don't want to spoil the friendship if the love thingy shouldn't work out and that kinda freaks me out completely. And since we're mostly hanging around with the same group of people, it would also be very bad to do something wrong there.

Also, she's a very complicated case herself. Took lots of time for her to open up and you can't use any tricks since she's _very_ clever. And on top of that, she studies psychology and is good at it, so no chance to pull it off with the usual strategies.

I know 100% that she feels the same. She constantly turns me on in a very obvious way, full-contact all the time but she kinda backs off every time I ask her to go out or do something together. I think she's afraid somehow, must have had some bad experiences in the past.

So any similar experiences, ideas, whatever? This is really a cry for help, since I'll go nuts if I don't get her. I haven't felt like this since I was a teenager, I'm just all confused.

 

[The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy]

Your post is confusing.

Your saying your falling in love but also using terms like pull it off with the usual strategies which I interperate as your simply after sex.

Might I suggest you work out exactly what it is your after, then tell her exactly how you feel.

Also, she's a very complicated case herself. Took lots of time for her to open up and you can't use any tricks since she's _very_ clever. And on top of that, she studies psychology and is good at it.........She constantly turns me on in a very obvious way, full-contact all the time but she kinda backs off every time I ask her to go out or do something together.

Admittedly I'm now paranoid about relationships but this behavior strikes me as manipulative. If you proceed watch yourself.

I don't want to spoil the friendship if the love thingy shouldn't work out and that kinda freaks me out completely.

I don't personally know anyone who is friends with an ex, do you?

 

[_xxx_]

Your post is confusing.

Your saying your falling in love but also using terms like pull it off with the usual strategies which I interperate as your simply after sex.

Might I suggest you work out exactly what it is your after, then tell her exactly how you feel.

No, I'm not just after sex, I'd like more, maybe a serious relationship. If I was just after sex, I'd have zero problems, that's something I have lots of practice with.

Admittedly I'm now paranoid about relationships but this behavior strikes me as manipulative. If you proceed watch yourself.

You're right, I thought that too. But how does that help me?

I don't personally know anyone who is friends with an ex, do you?

Yes, I'm friends with several of them. My last relationship turned into a beautiful friendship, in fact I'd say that my last ex is my very best friend now. But there has to be a relationship first. I was more about what happens if I get rejected, that would rather be the problematic version.

 

[The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy]

You're right, I thought that too. But how does that help me?

It helps by setting realistic expectations. If you have the maturity to just let things develop while still protecting yourself if it goes bad, by all means, see what happens. Personally, if I have the slightest sense of being toyed with by a woman I wouldn't touch her with a barge pole.

If she rejects you, big deal? You tried and failed, you wouldn't be the first, and wont be the last. If your freindship is good it should remain intact, if she gets strange with you, your better off without her.

Yes, I'm friends with several of them.

Your a better man than me 8) (or any I know :? )

 

[_xxx_]

Thanks for the input, Shogun

If it was a usual case of meeting someone new and so on, I'd have zero problems. It's just that I have never had any experience with girls who were my friends prior to that.

The actual question was rather: how do you switch from "friendship" to "more than friendship" without doing anything terribly wrong?

 

[Sabastian]

No, I'm not just after sex, I'd like more, maybe a serious relationship. If I was just after sex, I'd have zero problems, that's something I have lots of practice with.

Heh, thats the problem. Just go for sex.. the relationship/trouble will come after.

 

[_xxx_]

No, I'm not just after sex, I'd like more, maybe a serious relationship. If I was just after sex, I'd have zero problems, that's something I have lots of practice with.

Heh, thats the problem. Just go for sex.. the relationship/trouble will come after.

That might actually be my failure when I think about it.

 

[Kanyamagufa]

I'm sorta in the same situation. I have this friend that is just so wonderful and beautiful (she's sooo gorgeous) and I really want to be with her but I don't want to lose her as a friend should things go awry...

We're really close. And as easy as it is to say that I'd be better off without her should she start acting weird around me, I don't want to be without her. I love this girl, I love being around her.

I hear you man, I'm right there with you.

 

[nelg]

But this is a special case. There is this girl I really like. I know her since last year and just now I'm kinda falling in love with her, but have absolutely no idea how to pull it off, since we're quite good friends.

I don't know how old you are but if what you say is true about being good friends and actually having an appreciation for her that goes beyond just your feelings, then it sounds like an opportunity for a long term (permanent) relationship. The ‘feeling’ of being in love is natures way to insure a fulfilling of an evolutionary necessity. It is easy to fall in love. What comes after the dopamine highs and the serotonin lows must stem from a cognizant appreciation. Which it seems you have.


Here is some interesting reading for you

http://www.sensualism.com/love/index.html

http://members.fortunecity.com/templarser/lovesick.html

BACKGROUND: The evolutionary consequences of love are so important that there must be some long-established biological process regulating it. Recent findings suggest that the serotonin (5-HT) transporter might be linked to both neuroticism and sexual behaviour as well as to obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). The similarities between an overvalued idea, such as that typical of subjects in the early phase of a love relationship, and obsession, prompted us to explore the possibility that the two conditions might share alterations at the level of the 5-HT transporter. METHODS: Twenty subjects who had recently (within the previous 6 months) fallen in love, 20 unmedicated OCD patients and 20 normal controls, were included in the study. The 5-HT transporter was evaluated with the specific binding of 3H-paroxetine (3H-Par) to platelet membranes. RESULTS: The results showed that the density of 3H-Par binding sites was significantly lower in subjects who had recently fallen in love and in OCD patients than in controls. DISCUSSION: The main finding of the present study is that subjects who were in the early romantic phase of a love relationship were not different from OCD patients in terms of the density of the platelet 5-HT transporter, which proved to be significantly lower than in the normal controls. This would suggest common neurochemical changes involving the 5-HT system, linked to psychological dimensions shared by the two conditions, perhaps at an ideational level

 

[Saem]

Just let her find out more about you, make sure to answer any questions she has, pay attention to what she says and reply thoughtfully and honestly, she's probably just needs to find out what you're like. Soon, you'll have the trust bit. Once a girl trusts you, she'll get all kinds of freaky. By the end of that, you should be in something long-term, and tossing about the r word in a carefree manner.

 

[_xxx_]

She knows me pretty well already. Though she's not quite clear with her feelings yet I think. But time's my enemy and I just couldn't find an appropriate way to do it yet.

nelg, I'm 31 and have had several relationships and many short encounters. But I never had any affairs whatsoever with a girl from my clique, a friend of mine. That's the area where I have absolutely zero experience, since it obviously doesn't work the same way as when the girl's new to you, which was always the case for me up until now.

And the other problem is that she's so damn gorgeous, she just blew me away like no other in the last ten years or so.

 

[digitalwanderer]

The last friend I got romantically involved with I ended up marrying. 8)

 

[_xxx_]

The last friend I got romantically involved with I ended up marrying. 8)

You were damn lucky

 

[patsu]

Yes. Similar situation. She knew all the pick-up lines and is the most talented person I know. So its nearly impossible to impress her. From my POV, she played hard to get many times, very frustrating and yet so fatally seductive.

I did the following:

1. Continue to treat her like my best friend. I figured that without me doing anything (before), we were already quite close. So something must be working for sometime.

2. I decided not to go the impulsive sex route earlier on because of concerns of losing her, and I thought it would avoid many complications. I had no one else to talk to about her because I was very far away from home and friends (The web wasn't there yet). My instinct told me that a beautiful woman like her is generally defensive against people treating her as sex objects (Your mileage may vary).

3. Take a deep breath (or a step backwards) whenever she pushed me back. Sometimes she'd call me afterwards to apologize. Most of the time, she'd "return" as if nothing has happened before. No matter what she did, I had to come back up with full health instantly (calmly). Along the way, we found time to discover each other more (just talk or do stuff together).

4. A few months later, whenever I brought up the subject of getting more serious, she'd subtly avoid the topic. She seemed to like me a lot too, so I kept reassuring her in different ways but not too frequently that I'm serious. Things seem to go very slowly. Go to 1.

5. One day (or rather a year later), when I couldn't contain everything anymore... I grabbed her suddenly when no one's looking and er... well... my hands went places. Till this day, I swear they were not mine. It was outside a shared laundary facility.

We got more physical and serious after that.

=========
In retrospect...

* She acted that way because the experience was new to her too. I guess she's a little scared too.. like losing control of herself. She'd worry about all the details. Since she's 5 years older than me, she wasn't sure whether the age thing will matter when she grows old (as in if she became ugly... heh heh).

* Erm... the sex part. I could have done it earlier but I was caught in this infinite loop (Step 1 to 4 above).

* She was secretly looking to me to lead the relationship despite her acting up. So you have to steer the relationship in a positive way.

* If this is your psychological barrier: Choosing between her long-term friendship and courting her as your life-long partner, just go for the latter. I'd rather crash and burn while courting her than keeping a helpless friendship and let her get married to someone else later.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[_xxx_]

In retrospect...

* She acted that way because the experience was new to her too. I guess she's a little scared too.. like losing control of herself. She'd worry about all the details. Since she's 5 years older than me, she wasn't sure whether the age thing will matter when she grows old (as in if she became ugly... heh heh).

* Erm... the sex part. I could have done it earlier but I was caught in this infinite loop (Step 1 to 4 above).

patsu, you nailed it. I went through 1-4 two or three times already

I could have done the sex part right in the beginning. It's been 6-7 months since I met her. I was in another relationship then and that's why we became "just" friends.

She is 9 years younger and I think this is new to her as well.. That's why we became friends, otherwise it would have been just a usual one-night stand (which I definitely did not want).

* She was secretly looking to me to lead the relationship despite her acting up. So you have to steer the relationship in a positive way.

This is the hard part. How do you do that? "Lead" in which way? I kept making suggestions every now and then and I know her preferences as well, but somehow it's very hard to wake her interest in anything she's not already familiar/comfortable with. Any tips?

* If this is your psychological barrier: Choosing between her long-term friendship and courting her as your life-long partner, just go for the latter. I'd rather crash and burn while courting her than keeping a helpless friendship and let her get married to someone else later.

Yup, me too. Thank you, this kinda confirms my line of thought too, but I just started losing my patience...

 

[Sonic]

Your patience doesn't matter. It's a simple matter of reality. You may value the friendship you have with her, but it is obvious in the way you talk about her in that you don't think of her as a friend. Confront her, let her know. You're a guy and probably have all these feelings bottled up inside just waiting to explode and release.

There really are no tips when it comes to leading a relationship. There's advice we can give you, but it may not matter much. You really have a few options. Continue being friends or just take the next step. That can be as small as touching her in a more intimate way or holding her hand when it just feels right to do that. If she pulls her hand away then that's a sign she is not ready yet.

Just how is your physical contact with her? I know when I found the one for me, the physical contact was just so natural. It'snot any sort of thinking or acting, just a natural way that you want to be close to the woman.

When presented with a friend that you've fallen for then you're better to crash and burn while telling her. Time is a precious commodity in life (to some) and there's no sense in wasting it if it's not going to happen. Go ahead and give it a shot, but don't sit around waiting.

 

[_xxx_]

Your patience doesn't matter. It's a simple matter of reality. You may value the friendship you have with her, but it is obvious in the way you talk about her in that you don't think of her as a friend. Confront her, let her know. You're a guy and probably have all these feelings bottled up inside just waiting to explode and release.

Sure I do. I let her know, though still subtly/cautious, she wouldn't respond to more directness, being very cautious herself.

That can be as small as touching her in a more intimate way or holding her hand when it just feels right to do that. If she pulls her hand away then that's a sign she is not ready yet. Just how is your physical contact with her? I know when I found the one for me, the physical contact was just so natural. It'snot any sort of thinking or acting, just a natural way that you want to be close to the woman.

Well SHE started that the very first time we met and still does it all the time. Touching me while talking, some caressing and all that. It feels quite natural for both, but not all the time. Meaning, there are moments when all is just relaxed and nice, but then she suddenly backs off sometimes, which makes me back off as well. She always comes back to it, though. Totally unpredictable.

When presented with a friend that you've fallen for then you're better to crash and burn while telling her. Time is a precious commodity in life (to some) and there's no sense in wasting it if it's not going to happen. Go ahead and give it a shot, but don't sit around waiting.

I know, my reasoning too. Now that you and patsu confirmed that as well, I'm pretty sure I'll do it. I'll try and give my best

 

[patsu]

This is the hard part. How do you do that? "Lead" in which way? I kept making suggestions every now and then and I know her preferences as well, but somehow it's very hard to wake her interest in anything she's not already familiar/comfortable with. Any tips?

Hmm... Here's the thing. I'm not sure if their personalities are alike. What worked for me may not work for you. The only things i could remember are:

+ Relax, and be yourself. There will be side-tracks and misunderstandings, you have to let go and enjoy the moments.

Sometimes, I got too tensed up around her because a lot was going on in my mind. It was all very confusing and draining. So I behaved like Frankenstein sometimes (All the frowning and stiffness from trying too hard to please her, *guessing* what she's thinking, what she wanted, blah blah ...).

There were misunderstandings because either she or I may read too much into what each other meant when we interacted. At one point, she suddenly thought I already have another girl friend back home because of what I did _not_ do. So you see... things can go wrong even if you don't do anything. Hah ! women...

+ Make her laugh. Live like there's no tomorrow. She may also appear unfriendly because she has a lot in her mind. Don't forget about your day job though 8^P. Despite all the talent and high IQ, she's afterall only a woman. So "normal" things still work except that she may hide her feelings better than most intentionally or unintentionally.

+ Even small, silly things we did together were fun (doing the dishes, especially casual chat/talk). Till this day, she remembers many of the details I told her but I have later forgotten... and vice versa. At that time, we got by without doing anything big, or going anywhere far away. But she certainly longed for it (She told me years later). I was too poor though.

Beware of PMS 8^D I got smacked down real hard once, and she thought I'd never come back again. Instead I showed up the next day with my thick skin and health bar completely filled. Some girls may need more time to forgive though.

Good luck.

 

[silence]

meh...didnt wanna write anything sooner, but i was in a shitty situation couple of years ago, too many thing didnt work out, havent seen her in at least 4 years and i still think i would same second i see her....

so i cant give you good advice, but seeing her going away with someone else is fucking painfull....

<cryptic>
ma totalno sranje je ispalo na kraju... sjebo sam kolko sam mogo :?
</cryptic>

 

[_xxx_]

Patsu: that's about how it is going here as well, so it means I must be doing something right

I hope I can keep my skin as thick long enough and refill my health bar regularly, I'm almost out of power. I think I need a few days off.

Thanks for the support guys, just what I needed. Damn, I start to feel like with family here, never would have thought...