Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[cheapchips]

The Xbox as a concept is dead, just the brand remains.

The Xbox concept was to get Windows into the living room. They might actually succeed with full Windows on the next iteration of hardware.

 

[rntongo]

So it's official now. There are no more XBox exclusive games, they are just a third party publisher and studio. The Xbox as a concept is dead, just the brand remains. They've already lost the handheld market to Valve and if Steam were to introduce a subscription tier that provided discounts or access to games they could be in real trouble with Gamespass.

Hate to say but I called it.

 

[iroboto]

There are no more XBox exclusive games, they are just a third party publisher and studio. The Xbox as a concept is dead, just the brand remains

They are a third party publisher and in house development shop; They have a console platform, they are on TVs, they are on the cloud, they would have had an Android store. They have a handheld coming, they have all sorts of accessories, they are on PC.

I don't understand what you mean that the concept is dead and just the brand remains? You think Sega and Xbox are operating in the same fashion?

 

[cheapchips]

It's probably worth quoting Spencer talking about hardware, if anyone's only looking at headlines and didn't watch the actual interview.

Let's say it: our own hardware, I think it's fundamental about what Xbox is. It's not lost to me that 'box' is in the name of our brand. In the position that I'm in, I look at hardware as a critical part of what we do, but not trying to gatekeep the games off of other places for the benefit of it.

Let's go build innovative hardware that people want to use to play, whether that's in their hands, whether it's on the television, or even other places.

Quite how they innovate in hardware when they're just tied to whatever AMD are remixing is bit of a question.

 

[Nisaaru]

What's there to innovate anyway for console HW? Consoles have a TDP/price budget which limits technology they can use anyway. I don't consider switching between AMD/NV or Intel GPUs as innovation.

I surely don't want the kind Nintendo interprets as one as they are gimmicks to sell sell subpar products to their druggies

 

[iroboto]

What's there to innovate anyway for console HW? Consoles have a TDP/price budget which limits technology they can use anyway. I don't consider switching between AMD/NV or Intel GPUs as innovation.

I surely don't want the kind Nintendo interprets as one as they are gimmicks to sell sell subpar products to their druggies

At the very least if they are not competing on library anymore, at the very least their services should be better, their hardware and accessories should be differentiated. How you access your games could be better. The various inputs could be different.

There is a lot to differentiate on. At the core of it, they need library or no one wins. But I think what will be plain, perhaps for both platforms, is that we will no longer see subsidy for hardware.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Hate to say but I called it.

According to the survey 3 of us called it

 

[BoardBonobo]

They are a third party publisher and in house development shop; They have a console platform, they are on TVs, they are on the cloud, they would have had an Android store. They have a handheld coming, they have all sorts of accessories, they are on PC.

I don't understand what you mean that the concept is dead and just the brand remains? You think Sega and Xbox are operating in the same fashion?

They are a third party developer, though it could be argued that this isn't by choice - they have to recoup the 70+ billion they spent on trying to win, and yes in house development is there for the current generation of Xbox. So they have a console which is more or less dead in the water now. Tracking behind Xbox One in sales, which itself was a disaster. I've never seen any TV related Xbox content so I can't comment on that. Everyone is on the cloud these days so I 'm not sure what that really counts for, you can play cloud hosted games on the PS Portal now and that is just getting better. And their failure to get the Android store in place seems to have thrown their whole plan out the window - causing this admission that they are just a publisher.

Their handheld will be DOA if they launch it with Windows and not a game and handhled friendly OS, besides they are already late to this party (the same they were with mobile).

And now that you point it out, there are probably more similarities between Xbox and Sega, especially the coniptions they went through before bowing out of the hardware market, than there were a week ago.

 

[iroboto]

So they have a console which is more or less dead in the water now.

Not true at all. Is your statement greater than 50% likely. But I’d hardly call that guaranteed.

Tracking behind Xbox One in sales, which itself was a disaster.

Still only at 1/2 way through the generation, this could change.

Everyone is on the cloud these days so I 'm not sure what that really counts for, you can play cloud hosted games on the PS Portal now and that is just getting better

That’s hardly true. But okay. Not everyone has the cloud infrastructure to support mass players on mobile phones, TV screens, PCs and console’s globally , if you want to say PS portal is the equivalent of that OK.

Their handheld will be DOA if they launch it with Windows and not a game and handhled friendly OS, besides they are already late to this party (the same they were with mobile).

There’s no evidence of this, the market is entirely nascent. To declare a winner already is pessimistic.

And now that you point it out, there are probably more similarities between Xbox and Sega, especially the coniptions they went through before bowing out of the hardware market, than there were a week ago.

Sensationalism. Different time and place and MS is a juggernaut compared to what Sega ever was. It has completely dwarfed Sega in every metric.

Take 30 seconds to ChatGPT. Even if it’s not entirely accurate, it sure it more correct than your statement.

Sega's console sales have historically lagged behind Xbox. The Sega Genesis sold approximately 35 million units, while the original Xbox sold around 24 million units[1][5]. In terms of revenue, Sega's gaming segment generated about ¥95.6 billion ($628 million) in the first half of FY25, while Xbox hardware revenue was approximately $2.872 billion, constituting only 13% of Microsoft's total gaming revenue of $21.525 billion for FY24[2][4]. Microsoft focuses more on software and services, which account for 87% of its gaming earnings, contrasting with Sega's reliance on game sales[2].

Citations:
[1] https://www.ign.com/articles/best-selling-video-game-consoles-nintendo-playstation-ps5-xbox
[2] https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9972...de-just-13-of-annual-earnings-from/index.html
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_generation_of_video_game_consoles
[4] https://www.gamesindustry.biz/segas-half-year-results-driven-by-22-rise-in-games-revenue
[5] https://venturebeat.com/games/heres-who-won-each-console-war/
[6] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1382046/sega-sammy-annual-game-revenue-segment/
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
[8] https://www.weforum.org/stories/2020/11/gaming-games-consels-xbox-play-station-fun/

Xbox will have another console following this generation. It doesn’t suffer from piracy issues. They still make the bulk of their revenue from services and will continue to do so.

 

[Cyan]

What's there to innovate anyway for console HW? Consoles have a TDP/price budget which limits technology they can use anyway. I don't consider switching between AMD/NV or Intel GPUs as innovation.

I surely don't want the kind Nintendo interprets as one as they are gimmicks to sell sell subpar products to their druggies

now that you mention it, the only one innovating is Microsoft right now. I mean, Nintendo is just the same as before, so is Playstation, however it's MS the one which has to do something differently.

Still, consoles used to innovate more. Like inducing the introduction of Blu-rays, HDTVs, etc. Raster champions each generation though, focused on 30fps with some 60fps exceptions, that's how things went for years.

 

[Dominik D]

They've already lost the handheld market to Valve

What handheld market? It's surreal to read over and over again how PC handhelds are this new gaming messiah only to be outsold by Switch every day of every week of every month. If 3DS was still produced it would outsell every PC handheld out there.

 

[rntongo]

It's probably worth quoting Spencer talking about hardware, if anyone's only looking at headlines and didn't watch the actual interview.



Quite how they innovate in hardware when they're just tied to whatever AMD are remixing is bit of a question.

I think we need to watch this space because considering they are redefining what it means to be an xbox it could mean any single device that runs games from their software dev teams. Remember the "This is an Xbox" campaign?

 

[Seanspeed]

What handheld market? It's surreal to read over and over again how PC handhelds are this new gaming messiah only to be outsold by Switch every day of every week of every month. If 3DS was still produced it would outsell every PC handheld out there.

This is like saying an indie game isn't a success because it's not selling Minecraft numbers.

Nintendo is an outlier and shouldn't be used as a barometer of success, especially when Switch is equally a main console platform as much as it is a handheld. Doing both was kind of its whole gimmick. I know I've played my Switch in docked mode for like 95%+ of the time as if it was just a regular console.

You're right that some might well be overstating the size of this market, but it's definitely growing in popularity. You can barely mention performance of some PC game without multiple people chiming in to ask how it runs on Steam Deck.

 

[Dominik D]

This is like saying an indie game isn't a success because it's not selling Minecraft numbers.

You're shifting the goalpost. The claim was that Microsoft, company not in mobile market, lost to Valve - company that was outsold by Nintendo 90:1. No matter how you slice it, it was a bizarre claim and no amount of weaseling to exclude Nintendo changes that. It's some new brand of absurdity, in the same league as Switch2 obviously losing to Sony handheld that doesn't currently exist.

The reality is that PC handhelds are niche within a PC niche. And people who push for more powerful handhelds are a further niche within the first one. It's like being Ferrari fan and boldly proclaiming that all cars already lost to it: past, present, and future. Cool beans, when are you people hitting the ground?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You're shifting the goalpost. ...Cool beans, when are you people hitting the ground?

These types of rhetorical embellishments are counter-productive to good discussion, tending to escalate emotional energy in responses. Your argument can be presented in a neutral, enquiring tone rather than taking a small step into "Internet Argument" language.

Pointing this out publicly rather than a edit and private notice because I think everyone can be reminded that the default language programme we implement isn't optimal and could do with some run-time adjustment in use - when using a language pattern, stop to think why you're using it and what it adds. Is it just a habit, repeating the language model used by discussions you've seen as the style your own language model has been trained on?

 

[mr magoo]

Not true at all. Is your statement greater than 50% likely. But I’d hardly call that guaranteed.

Still only at 1/2 way through the generation, this could change.

That’s hardly true. But okay. Not everyone has the cloud infrastructure to support mass players on mobile phones, TV screens, PCs and console’s globally , if you want to say PS portal is the equivalent of that OK.



There’s no evidence of this, the market is entirely nascent. To declare a winner already is pessimistic.

Sensationalism. Different time and place and MS is a juggernaut compared to what Sega ever was. It has completely dwarfed Sega in every metric.

Take 30 seconds to ChatGPT. Even if it’s not entirely accurate, it sure it more correct than your statement.

Sega's console sales have historically lagged behind Xbox. The Sega Genesis sold approximately 35 million units, while the original Xbox sold around 24 million units[1][5]. In terms of revenue, Sega's gaming segment generated about ¥95.6 billion ($628 million) in the first half of FY25, while Xbox hardware revenue was approximately $2.872 billion, constituting only 13% of Microsoft's total gaming revenue of $21.525 billion for FY24[2][4]. Microsoft focuses more on software and services, which account for 87% of its gaming earnings, contrasting with Sega's reliance on game sales[2].

Citations:
[1] https://www.ign.com/articles/best-selling-video-game-consoles-nintendo-playstation-ps5-xbox
[2] https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9972...de-just-13-of-annual-earnings-from/index.html
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_generation_of_video_game_consoles
[4] https://www.gamesindustry.biz/segas-half-year-results-driven-by-22-rise-in-games-revenue
[5] https://venturebeat.com/games/heres-who-won-each-console-war/
[6] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1382046/sega-sammy-annual-game-revenue-segment/
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
[8] https://www.weforum.org/stories/2020/11/gaming-games-consels-xbox-play-station-fun/

Xbox will have another console following this generation. It doesn’t suffer from piracy issues. They still make the bulk of their revenue from services and will continue to do so.

I think it is a common knowledge now that console users decline and more poeple switch to PC gaming. Console sales tell one story but is Playstation userbase growing or just more PS4 users swicthing to Ps5? In contrast xbox gamepass userbase is growing.
I heard somwhere that MSFT is playing 20 years game while Sony is playing 5 years game, Sony is leading now but this may change.
IMO MSFT does the right thing to do, they build they own niche, own product that is not limited to Xbox as a device only.

 

[Nesh]

It's probably worth quoting Spencer talking about hardware, if anyone's only looking at headlines and didn't watch the actual interview.



Quite how they innovate in hardware when they're just tied to whatever AMD are remixing is bit of a question.

I guess innovate in the packaging and/or on how to provide XBOX as a service on existing hardware?

 

[iroboto]

I think it is a common knowledge now that console users decline and more poeple switch to PC gaming. Console sales tell one story but is Playstation userbase growing or just more PS4 users swicthing to Ps5? In contrast xbox gamepass userbase is growing.
I heard somwhere that MSFT is playing 20 years game while Sony is playing 5 years game, Sony is leading now but this may change.
IMO MSFT does the right thing to do, they build they own niche, own product that is not limited to Xbox as a device only.

While I can't predict the future, I was just pushing back against this idea that Xbox would only be a brand going forward.
It's a bit grand calling it a sega.

Google owns android. And it started out with OEM partners making their own phones with their own flavour of android. Then Google made their own Pixel phone.
If I assume certain things about what MS is trying to do, I see this as a potential path forward for them. To allow the market to be served in multiple areas, without needing to create the hardware everywhere to serve those areas. You want the most powerful console, maybe Asus will make it. You want the cheapest console there is, maybe that is MS.

Maybe some consoles are AMD, and others are Nvidia. Who knows. All I'm saying is, it's grand to say that the Xbox platform doesn't exist just because they are moving their library everywhere. If XboxOS becomes a thing (which, highly probable because you know, the guys on youtube arent the only ones with connections) that, in the past MS likes to make things and then shelve things, and then sometimes they come back. I won't say anymore on the subject.

But if the goal is win globally, then perhaps it's better that countries that are underserved by MS, can actually be served properly by having console manufacturers build something for their specific region, modify the Xbox OS to meet the flavour of that country, and still have access to all the games via the Xbox store.

Why Xbox OS and not PC? Why isn't steam the be all end all? Because cheating is a massive problem on PC. We need a way to stop cheating. And they can do that with XboxOS. But they can't do it with Xbox games running on Windows.

There's a lot of ways for the business to proceed. I don't know how this will play out.

having said that:

I do agree with the following:
a) the traditional console strategy is done for Microsoft
b) Microsoft is going to do their best to move as much as their first party games onto other platforms.

I disagree with the following:
a) they are leaving the hardware space, they just won't need to invest as much into it anymore. They will undoubtedly pick a segment of the market that they want to serve and they will serve it. Likely not at a loss.

 

[Cyan]

Steam on the next Xbox? It seems possible. Moment and second when he talks about that, Phil smiles.

(00:00) Introduction
(00:22) Reaction to the Xbox Showcase
(01:00) Ninja Gaiden Japan Trip
(02:31) Favorite Games
(04:26) Redefining Xbox Fans
(06:35) AI Xbox Tech
(07:55) Largest Technical Leap
(09:04) Xbox Handheld
(10:06) Are All Xbox Games Going to PlayStation?
(12:07) Starfield Exclusivity
(13:34) Xbox Losing It's Identity
(15:44) Where Xbox Will Grow the Most
(17:21) A Multi-Platform Future?
(19:26) Why Buy an Xbox?
(21:16) Steam
(22:35) Xbox Series S Parity
(24:47) Indie & AA Support
(26:59) Are More Games Coming?
(29:15) Phil & Xbox's Legacy

 

[Seanspeed]

You're shifting the goalpost. The claim was that Microsoft, company not in mobile market, lost to Valve - company that was outsold by Nintendo 90:1. No matter how you slice it, it was a bizarre claim and no amount of weaseling to exclude Nintendo changes that. It's some new brand of absurdity, in the same league as Switch2 obviously losing to Sony handheld that doesn't currently exist.

The reality is that PC handhelds are niche within a PC niche. And people who push for more powerful handhelds are a further niche within the first one. It's like being Ferrari fan and boldly proclaiming that all cars already lost to it: past, present, and future. Cool beans, when are you people hitting the ground?

I think I addressed most of your points here in the parts of my comment you ignored.