Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[Charlietus]

As a gamer since Commodore times, I think people are a bit whiney about "plug-and-play" gaming.
I install the game, start it up, set my settings and then game.
if people find that to complicated perhaps they should find another hobby

Everytime I play on PC, I miss just having to click a button on a controller to turn on the device and use it.
Not booting directly in to a gaming optimized interface. Having the option to use my wired earphones connected to my wireless controller. Using the mic integrated in the controller to chat. And others that I'm probably not remembering.

It's also the only device that I use that isn't bugged in some way. It just works.

As I have said before, PC isn't difficult or inconvenient to use, but a console is just easier and problem free.

 

[IQandHDR]

Everytime I play on PC, I miss just having to click a button on a controller to turn on the device and use it.
Not booting directly in to a gaming optimized interface. Having the option to use my wired earphones connected to my wireless controller. Using the mic integrated in the controller to chat. And others that I'm probably not remembering.

It's also the only device that I use that isn't bugged in some way. It just works.

As I have said before, PC isn't difficult or inconvenient to use, but a console is just easier and problem free.

Since I do not use a controller I do not have those isssues (I really dislike auto-aim).
And I do not play online games and I prefer image quality, the PC is for me.
Sounds like you should ditch gaming on your PC and stick to your console

 

[Charlietus]

Since I do not use a controller I do not have those isssues (I really dislike auto-aim).
And I do not play online games and I prefer image quality, the PC is for me.
Sounds like you should ditch gaming on your PC and stick to your console

I like the PC for many other things, like image quality, mods and more, so just the console wouldn't be enough.

 

[QPlayer]

Actually, you just talked about how you like the PC for the graphic setting options it offers and the freedom it gives compared to a traditional console. But that's okay.

I'm just saying that all of this can be done in the next console. Only in a much more plug and play way. It can also be used as a PC. But it will also have a console interface ONLY FOR GAMES as an option, under which it will be much faster compared to the traditional current Windows. All this in a slimmer, much prettier box. Can be turned on and off with Joypad, etc. Anyone who wants to can use a mouse-keyboard combo. It can be cheaper than a PC assembled today. With Gamepass and Steam and the other stores... Many, many arguments in favor of the purchase.

If they tell you, look here for an Xbox box, with a joypad, you can use it as a PC, you can play on it from the Gamepass and Steam interface, it is ~30% cheaper than if you build a similar configuration yourself and it is faster than a traditional Windows interface. When taken out of the box and turned on, everything starts immediately with preset settings. Let's see!

 

[Cyan]

Predicting the (actually very exciting) future of next gen Xbox hardware

An analyst recently said that next gen, only either Xbox or PlayStation will survive as a console manufacturer. Here's why that's silly.

www.windowscentral.com

Jez dropping hints at the console less future of Xbox. This business direction is imho more likely to cannibalize PC sales than move people from consoles to whatever this system will be. Steam OS is going to take a share of current Windows PC and to a much lesser extent console gamers. Missing in all of Jez's analyis is the most important thing which is what do the Software Developers think about supporting such a system. Because they can definitely make their games available to such a future PC Xbox but expecting them to put in extra unpaid work to make their games run with console level requirements is a dream. For a PC Xbox machine the requirements will have to be very similar to current PC games.

Roanne Sones has gone totally under the radar until this article, and tbh I never thought she could be behind a new Xbox strategy. Microsoft is the only company controlling their own OS, the potential is there to do something good.

Windows is what it is, after all, an OS that works but not without quirks. Contrary to what many people think, it's a brilliant OS 'cos it has to run on your hardware, your grandmother's hardware and so on and so forth. That's a handicap they have to overcome when talking to retailers.

Freedom has a price.

 

[rntongo]

Roanne Sones has gone totally under the radar until this article, and tbh I never thought she could be behind a new Xbox strategy. Microsoft is the only company controlling their own OS, the potential is there to do something good.

Windows is what it is, after all, an OS that works but not without quirks. Contrary to what many people think, it's a brilliant OS 'cos it has to run on your hardware, your grandmother's hardware and so on and so forth. That's a handicap they have to overcome when talking to retailers.

Freedom has a price.

From following Phil I think its him then Roanne Sones behind this strategy. Ever since Phil was able to stream a game while in a Matutu on holiday in Kenya he's been obsessed with cloud gaming and its implications on the future of gaming. Otherwise yes they have an opportunity to set themselves apart and give people something that has always been interesting. Unfortunately things turn out differently when it comes to implementation. The benefits of a single spec fixed hw to software developers will be lost to some extent once OEMs enter the picture, but it gives consumers great choice albeit at the expense of some of other things like a seamless experience with little to no hiccups. One thing for certain, Playstation is going to become the defacto platform to create AAA titles for, like the Xbox 360 was and the PS5 has been. Simply create a title on the base configuration of the current gen Playstation hardware and then create a version for other platforms.

These Xbox PC style hybrids could provide a compelling product to current PC gamers and also stave off Steam OS as the article mentions. In the past a lot of people wondered why MS didnt put Windows on Xbox, its now the reverse that seems to be Xbox coming to Windows. Xbox hardware to the OEM. If MS fully goes in this direction it can work out well for everyone and give them growth without having to compete in hardware. The actual Xbox can be a niche product made by the Surface Team that sets the minspec for all OEM Xboxes. As well I think if this all pans out this niche Xbox from the surface team may be the first Xbox to ship with Windows.

But for the vast majority of consumers Xbox will just be an experience they get from their OEM produced hardware or cloud streaming. And the diehards will have the Xbox from the surface team.

 

[Cyan]

From following Phil I think its him then Roanne Sones behind this strategy. Ever since Phil was able to stream a game while in a Matutu on holiday in Kenya he's been obsessed with cloud gaming and its implications on the future of gaming. Otherwise yes they have an opportunity to set themselves apart and give people something that has always been interesting. Unfortunately things turn out differently when it comes to implementation. The benefits of a single spec fixed hw to software developers will be lost to some extent once OEMs enter the picture, but it gives consumers great choice albeit at the expense of some of other things like a seamless experience with little to no hiccups. One thing for certain, Playstation is going to become the defacto platform to create AAA titles for, like the Xbox 360 was and the PS5 has been. Simply create a title on the base configuration of the current gen Playstation hardware and then create a version for other platforms.

These Xbox PC style hybrids could provide a compelling product to current PC gamers and also stave off Steam OS as the article mentions. In the past a lot of people wondered why MS didnt put Windows on Xbox, its now the reverse that seems to be Xbox coming to Windows. Xbox hardware to the OEM. If MS fully goes in this direction it can work out well for everyone and give them growth without having to compete in hardware. The actual Xbox can be a niche product made by the Surface Team that sets the minspec for all OEM Xboxes. As well I think if this all pans out this niche Xbox from the surface team may be the first Xbox to ship with Windows.

But for the vast majority of consumers Xbox will just be an experience they get from their OEM produced hardware or cloud streaming. And the diehards will have the Xbox from the surface team.

Microsoft don't lie. When Microsoft itself was buying Activision, they said that their goal wasn't to make exclusive games... but nobody believed them and they made up stories saying that Microsoft was lying to get the purchase approved...

When people get this into their heads they'll understand, what they can do is omit information at a given moment, but if they say that they are buying something to not make it exclusive, it's because they are telling the truth.

This OEM strategy means opening the games to more people (the console of the people). More people = more purchases. More purchases = better quality future games. Better quality games = what people want.

 

[QPlayer]

One thing for certain, Playstation is going to become the defacto platform to create AAA titles for, like the Xbox 360 was and the PS5 has been. Simply create a title on the base configuration of the current gen Playstation hardware and then create a version for other platforms.

Why would that be? It's not even now, it's just a mediocre closed console with limited graphics options. Just look at the console versions of multiplatform games these days, many games have virtually no optimization and can only provide medium or low graphics compared to a PC with an average configuration.

If MS makes its own XboxPC console, it will be a powerhouse, as it has been hinted at. The Playstation closed console will not be able to compete with this concept, because due to its limited set of functions, it cannot be sold too expensively. On the other hand, the XboxPC can be sold more expensively because the hardcore gamers will buy it anyway, while the OEM little brothers are bought by a lot of average users. If we look at it from the point of view of technology/graphics/hype, the MS XboxPC will be the best presentation of AAA video games, just as nowadays the most popular videos on YouTube and all other media are those that present games running on expensive PCs.

 

[Cappuccino]

Consumers wanted a 4K gaming device for this gen PERIOD!!

Then why did 49% of them buy a device marketed for 1440p at best?

I wouldn't call either the Series X or PS5 a 4k device anyways, they barely hit 1080p in the latest titles!

 

[Cappuccino]

If MS makes its own XboxPC console, it will be a powerhouse, as it has been hinted at.

My problem with the internet rumor mill is we've taken made up speculation and dressed it up as 'hints'. MS hasn't hinted they are making a 'powerhouse' open console, in fact they haven't hinted at making an open console at all.

The Playstation closed console will not be able to compete with this concept, because due to its limited set of functions, it cannot be sold too expensively. On the other hand, the XboxPC can be sold more expensively because the hardcore gamers will buy it anyway

It's funny because the Playstation competes just fine with PC lol. And hardcore gamers are absolutely not going to buy an OEM PC with an Xbox label, 'hardcore gamers' are building DIY rigs to get the best performance they can within a budget.

 

[rntongo]

Why would that be? It's not even now, it's just a mediocre closed console with limited graphics options. Just look at the console versions of multiplatform games these days, many games have virtually no optimization and can only provide medium or low graphics compared to a PC with an average configuration.

If MS makes its own XboxPC console, it will be a powerhouse, as it has been hinted at. The Playstation closed console will not be able to compete with this concept, because due to its limited set of functions, it cannot be sold too expensively. On the other hand, the XboxPC can be sold more expensively because the hardcore gamers will buy it anyway, while the OEM little brothers are bought by a lot of average users. If we look at it from the point of view of technology/graphics/hype, the MS XboxPC will be the best presentation of AAA video games, just as nowadays the most popular videos on YouTube and all other media are those that present games running on expensive PCs.

I think PS5's SDK/GDK is defacto the preferred platform for AAA game development. Yes the console isnt as powerful as an RTX 4090 which most people dont have anyway, but most AAA titles are built around the requirements for consoles i.e the ~16GB of RAM, ~8 core CPU. It will be much easier moving forward to first build the game around the base PS5 or PS6 and then have it running on PC, Xbox PC hybrid and other platforms really since they all will be running on AMD hardware anyway. As a SWE myself this makes the most sense. During the 7th gen it was the Xbox 360. Generally devs preferred developing for the Xbox 360 but Sony under Cerny has done an excellent job with a short time to triangle i.e building hardware from the SDLC backwards towards hardware. Even with a midgen refresh the focus is to actually build for the base console first.

On Xbox currently you sometimes need to navigate the challenges of feature parity issues between the X and S wheras on PC you just ship the game in a good condition and let consumers adjust settings. MS will have to ensure requirements are clear.

Why would that be? It's not even now, it's just a mediocre closed console with limited graphics options. Just look at the console versions of multiplatform games these days, many games have virtually no optimization and can only provide medium or low graphics compared to a PC with an average configuration.

Games are quite optimized for the PS5 actually and now we're going into the second half of the gen you'll see this more as devs utilize the features related to PSSR, Raytracing in the Pro. The longer SDLC has made cross gen periods longer. One title thats going to prove this is GTA 6. That should be quite optimized for the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. For the X/S I dont think MS can afford to have GTA 6 delayed on the Series X/S so there wont be strict feature parity requirements if Rockstar decides not to take extra work meeting requirements to get the game running on the S with certain conditions.

If MS makes its own XboxPC console, it will be a powerhouse, as it has been hinted at. The Playstation closed console will not be able to compete with this concept, because due to its limited set of functions, it cannot be sold too expensively. On the other hand, the XboxPC can be sold more expensively because the hardcore gamers will buy it anyway, while the OEM little brothers are bought by a lot of average users. If we look at it from the point of view of technology/graphics/hype, the MS XboxPC will be the best presentation of AAA video games, just as nowadays the most popular videos on YouTube and all other media are those that present games running on expensive PCs.

What you're suggesting could only turn out true if companies can make more money developing for the Xbox/PC hybrid over the Playstation. I did Android development at work this year and wasnt a fan of it compared to iOS. I didnt get to use Kotlin though we were using Java but the multiple variations of hardware can make it quite cumbersome. iOS isnt perfect(some things Android SDK does better) but the Apple platform is just better overall and generates more revenue. As well has excellent support for the fewer variations in hardware. To some extent this is similar between the Playstation approach and what MS will be trying to achieve with the Xbox Hybrid PC.

the MS XboxPC will be the best presentation of AAA video games, just as nowadays the most popular videos on YouTube and all other media are those that present games running on expensive PCs.

This is plausible but still doesnt invalidate my point. AAA games will be primarily developed on the base PS5 or 6 then the XboxPC /Xbox PC OEM devices. Also I think if Xbox still maintains hw they will leave the high end versions of the Xbox PC to OEMs and just make a minspec machine similar in performance to the PS6. This would make most sense from a Software Development perspective as well. It would be better for the internal teams at MS to ensure there is a good minspec for OEMs to base on

 

[rntongo]

Then why did 49% of them buy a device marketed for 1440p at best?

I wouldn't call either the Series X or PS5 a 4k device anyways, they barely hit 1080p in the latest titles!

Because MS in part decided to produce more Series S devices. This has been well documented in numerous articles and publications. Series S has always been available while Series X had stockouts due to higher demand than the S, lower allocation of production from MS due to having two production lines. When Series X production increased it caught up and is now the more purchased of the two devices.

On the point of 4K yes indeed the Series X and PS5s are 4k devices. The image quality is what matters really.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Microsoft don't lie. When Microsoft itself was buying Activision, they said that their goal wasn't to make exclusive games... but nobody believed them and they made up stories saying that Microsoft was lying to get the purchase approved...

This is really bad discussion. It's full of 'internetisms' of taking one subset of people and projecting that onto entire, massive populations.

There were many people in these discussion with a broad spectrum of opinions. Whenever you have a population of people, you'll have a spectrum. People (the 'internet') needs to move on from lumping all peoples together under different banners for, seemingly, the purpose of just making their point easier to express. These black-and-white projections just antagonise, and often derail, discussions.

This OEM strategy means opening the games to more people (the console of the people). More people = more purchases. More purchases = better quality future games. Better quality games = what people want.

In theory. However it doesn't always work like that, as we see with other multiplatform publishers producing lower quality work despite higher profits (EA). And it also means compromising the experience on one hardware where the game is designed to spread across a spectrum of targets versus just targeting one particular hardware configuration. That latter is less poignant these days, but we still see some fixed-hardware, low-level-library advantages, and if devs were to go back to PS2 era hardware targeting, a lot more could be achieved (at prohibitively expensive costs, I expect!).

 

[Charlietus]

What I really want to know is, are there going to be devkits? Will developers make specific versions for that range of hardware? Or will it just play the PC version of the game?

 

[Cyan]

My problem with the internet rumor mill is we've taken made up speculation and dressed it up as 'hints'. MS hasn't hinted they are making a 'powerhouse' open console, in fact they haven't hinted at making an open console at all.

one thing is true though, they are doing something else outside of the traditional console model. It seems obvious things are going to change. It's been a while with this stuff already. This river of rumours is making a lot of sound.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This river of rumours is making a lot of sound.

That's possibly because it's in a feedback loop. On the Web, people keep hearing rumours from people repeating the rumours they've heard. Some of those people aren't even people but bots. The Internet is an 'unreliable narrator' and shouldn't be interpreted as such.

If you want to properly measure the scope of the rumours, you need to trace back to all the sources and see how many there actually are.

 

[Seanspeed]

Actually, you just talked about how you like the PC for the graphic setting options it offers and the freedom it gives compared to a traditional console. But that's okay.

I'm just saying that all of this can be done in the next console. Only in a much more plug and play way. It can also be used as a PC. But it will also have a console interface ONLY FOR GAMES as an option, under which it will be much faster compared to the traditional current Windows. All this in a slimmer, much prettier box. Can be turned on and off with Joypad, etc. Anyone who wants to can use a mouse-keyboard combo. It can be cheaper than a PC assembled today. With Gamepass and Steam and the other stores... Many, many arguments in favor of the purchase.

If they tell you, look here for an Xbox box, with a joypad, you can use it as a PC, you can play on it from the Gamepass and Steam interface, it is ~30% cheaper than if you build a similar configuration yourself and it is faster than a traditional Windows interface. When taken out of the box and turned on, everything starts immediately with preset settings. Let's see!

But MS cannot subsidize such a machine if people can just ignore the MS/Xbox store and just buy games from Steam instead, which is what tons of people will do, since you can actually buy Steam keys from all sorts of sellers who offer competitive discounts and whatnot all the time, making it pretty much an objectively cheaper way to buy games. Plus Steam is just very likely gonna be way better than the Xbox interface.

And this ignores that Valve can offer this same sort of hardware offering at the same value themselves, but with that likely superior Steam interface instead, including a SteamOS front end for a very console-like experience for those who prefer that.

Basically, the avenue that Microsoft could go down here would be one where their lunch could easily be eaten by a major competitor. Same thing with handhelds, as that's an area where such competitors already exist and again, can likely do it better than they can in terms of the user experience.

I really think MS need to drop the pretense that they can keep up this 'console' hardware strategy at all.

 

[Charlietus]

If they tell you, look here for an Xbox box, with a joypad, you can use it as a PC, you can play on it from the Gamepass and Steam interface, it is ~30% cheaper than if you build a similar configuration yourself and it is faster than a traditional Windows interface. When taken out of the box and turned on, everything starts immediately with preset settings. Let's see!

It's clear to me that the reason for this change of strategy is Microsoft not wanting to lose money on hardware anymore (this leak is on par with the Nvidia leak, like who the hell is this guy, Phil Spencer?)


There's going to be a Xbox reference design console/PC hybrid sold at a slight profit, and many third party versions of the same concept sold at very high prices. We have seen this already with the steam machines, third parties will be there to make $.

 

[iroboto]

It's clear to me that the reason for this change of strategy is Microsoft not wanting to lose money on hardware anymore (this leak is on par with the Nvidia leak, like who the hell is this guy, Phil Spencer?)

View attachment 12709
There's going to be a Xbox reference design console/PC hybrid sold at a slight profit, and many third party versions of the same concept sold at very high prices. We have seen this already with the steam machines, third parties will be there to make $.

Retailer/Partner leaker. MS internal leaks are quite different.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's going to be a Xbox reference design console/PC hybrid sold at a slight profit, and many third party versions of the same concept sold at very high prices. We have seen this already with the steam machines, third parties will be there to make $.

That will need differentiating, which presumably, if true, means the base MS XB will be the low spec machine and the higher tier machines will be pricey with hardware margins.