Sony PlayStation 5 Pro

looks like a lot bunch devs are sadly using an old version of it and not updating.
Have doubts old version usage is reason for bad results. Imo main problem they dont test it and release it with worse quality than base ps5. Just drop pssr if it doesnt deliver in current version and run game with higher internal res (like Calisto protocol or Dying Light2) or give disable pssr switch like in gt7.
 
Have doubts old version usage is reason for bad results. Imo main problem they dont test it and release it with worse quality than base ps5. Just drop pssr if it doesnt deliver in current version and run game with higher internal res (like Calisto protocol or Dying Light2) or give disable pssr switch like in gt7.
I remember the first Insomniac game was not great with PSSR because they had their own sharpening filter on top of PSSR filter. Problem is not all teams have time to do Image quality control and listen to players feedback. I mean it's also one thing to hear the complaints, but another to find an easy fix.

And even Insomniac released the first version without noticing the problem first! game development is hard...
 
Have doubts old version usage is reason for bad results. Imo main problem they dont test it...
Is that really viable? It harms them and Sony not to even run the game and ensure it works. Sony are supposed to have TRCs as well and to test every game for basic functionality, unless they've dropped this requirement. Either they test it and get different results, or they test it and find it's no good but ship it anyway...because...it really makes zero sense. Or they patch their code and don't even run it once to ensure it runs, which is ludicrous, but makes more sense than seeing problems and ignoring them.
 
Is that really viable? It harms them and Sony not to even run the game and ensure it works. Sony are supposed to have TRCs as well and to test every game for basic functionality, unless they've dropped this requirement. Either they test it and get different results, or they test it and find it's no good but ship it anyway...because...it really makes zero sense. Or they patch their code and don't even run it once to ensure it runs, which is ludicrous, but makes more sense than seeing problems and ignoring them.
I mean in Silent Hill 2 pssr artefacts were literaly in first scene ;d Not sure whats the problem is here and why they are not bother to check if pssr improve image quality or its opposite. Maybe they just want marketing checkbox "our game supporting pssr" as its new thing.
 
I mean in Silent Hill 2 pssr artefacts were literaly in first scene ;d Not sure whats the problem is here and why they are not bother to check if pssr improve image quality or its opposite. Maybe they just want marketing checkbox "our game supporting pssr" as its new thing.
Exactly. It's hard to imagine any other scenario than "we gotta get a PS5 Pro patch out which supports it's headlining feature to catch some of the hype and not be left out", so to speak.

In all of these cases where image quality or performance is actually degraded compared to the base console, there's no way they didn't notice.. and yet they released them anyway. They should have left the base PS5 profiles in there as an option so players could essentially revert the game back or choose.

PSSR will obviously evolve over time and get better.. but in the cases where it isn't they need to at least ensure the game can be played at base settings so that the experience isn't actively worse than the base console.. because that's just a bad look.
 
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Another games that ppsr is just bad and pro looks worse than base ps5
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as i understand from DF Weekly COD BO6 and Star Wars Outlaws are among those with questionable PSSR implementations

so it aint a surprise Avatar joins the List "snowdrop engine" with similar resolutions on base PS5

at this rate just leave PSSR as an option because you''ll be stuck with a Version of the game that looks bad going forward .
 
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They should have left the base PS5 profiles in there as an option so players could essentially revert the game back or choose.
Now you’re seeing the business lens of things. Sony didn’t put restrictions or demand levels of QA, so they are free to ship and call things enhanced. Anything to get more discovery and eyes onto their games.

It’s not developers fault here. Sony provided the platform, they used it, they were told it would work and that this is what the customers were paying for.

Unless they were explicitly told that their games have to reach a level of quality that is massively discernible from the base unit, they won’t
 
Now you’re seeing the business lens of things. Sony didn’t put restrictions or demand levels of QA, so they are free to ship and call things enhanced. Anything to get more discovery and eyes onto their games.

It’s not developers fault here. Sony provided the platform, they used it, they were told it would work and that this is what the customers were paying for.

Unless they were explicitly told that their games have to reach a level of quality that is massively discernible from the base unit, they won’t
It's the devs jobs to verify something works for their game if they implement it.

PSSR is the lowest hanging fruit for developers to "upgrade" their games for Pro without spending a lot of money... and thus it's what most developers will do. In the cases where it actively hurts the game experience in some way, then that's on the developers.. not Sony. It's pretty sad how many times playing the PS4 version of a game on the PS5 provides a better experience than the native PS5 version does.. and now we base PS5 games which run and look better running on a PS5 Pro than native PS5 Pro patched versions..

They're digging their own grave by having all these modes and IQ and settings...

If I was Sony.. my only mandate would be... don't release patches which actively make the Pro experience worse than the base console..
 
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It's the devs jobs to verify something works for their game if they implement it.
It works though! Very well I might add. Unfortunately, for some titles or engines, not always as good as the in-house solution.

PSSR is a black box to them unfortunately and this tends to be out of developers control for these types of algorithms. The algo is provided and you slot it in. The reality is, there may have to be serious changes to make it work well, and they may not be in the position to do this or want to. Further integration to make it look pristine would lie on the responsibility Of the developer, but they are not beholden to meet some standard.

Not all developers are going to A/B test like DF does. Slot in PSSR and if it works, great, crank some dials and ship it.

This would be very different for unreleased titles, but existing titles I think this is fair game.

The issue is; this is a console, and we are used to using the kit as provided. What’s happening is that this is venturing into PC style territory, and this is a NN algorithm following in the footsteps of a PC implementation versus a NN algorithm designed for a console experience.
 
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It works though! Very well I might add. Unfortunately, for some titles or engines, not always as good as the in-house solution.

PSSR is a black box to them unfortunately and this tends to be out of developers control for these types of algorithms. The algo is provided and you slot it in. The reality is, there may have to be serious changes to make it work well, and they may not be in the position to do this or want to. Further integration to make it look pristine would lie on the responsibility Of the developer, but they are not beholden to meet some standard.

Not all developers are going to A/B test like DF does. Slot in PSSR and if it works, great, crank some dials and ship it.

This would be very different for unreleased titles, but existing titles I think this is fair game.
They always have the control whether to implement it or not though. The fact remains that for whatever reason.. they implemented something, and immediately it was immediately apparent that it degraded the experience to players.. Which means it should have also been immediately apparent to the developers as well.. and yet it released.

Let's not pretend devs don't understand this is a PRO console and that consumers shouldn't expect to have to compromise because they couldn't be bothered to verify if something was sufficiently better than the other console or not.. If major changes are required to make it work well, then simply don't implement it and bump the res a bit.

When we chastise games for shitty DLSS implementations... we don't blame Nvidia.. we blame the devs which implemented it into the game.
 
They always have the control whether to implement it or not though. The fact remains that for whatever reason.. they implemented something, and immediately it was immediately apparent that it degraded the experience to players.. Which means it should have also been immediately apparent to the developers as well.. and yet it released.

Let's not pretend devs don't understand this is a PRO console and that consumers shouldn't expect to have to compromise because they couldn't be bothered to verify if something was sufficiently better than the other console or not.. If major changes are required to make it work well, then simply don't implement it and bump the res a bit.

When we chastise games for shitty DLSS implementations... we don't blame Nvidia.. we blame the devs which implemented it into the game.
They do understand completely, but they are incentivized to implement it. And you can only strike when the iron is hot, which is now. Because that is what Sony sold everyone on. That’s why you’re buying the console, because Sony told you that PSSR is the shit.

And for a majority of people, it is sufficient. Though, imo, for a majority of people wouldn’t notice it anyway.

What you’re seeing now, is DF level scrutiny by a lot of that hardcore audience that bought into the messaging. Ever read the threads about game stuttering now? Everyone on 5pro is complaining about them all the time now, they’ve all become Alex, except they didn’t notice these issues while playing on PS5.

People are being trained to identify these issues, because there is so much emphasis on frame rate and image quality with the pro and its price point, people are going to dial in.

Remember. It’s a console. Console games typically only used to have 1 profile, and few chances to change settings. Now there is 2 and now we also have PSSR toggles?
I get why they need them, but I also get why it’s not there. It’s confusing for people why they have the option to turn it off.
 
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I mean in Silent Hill 2 pssr artefacts were literaly in first scene ;d Not sure whats the problem is here and why they are not bother to check if pssr improve image quality or its opposite. Maybe they just want marketing checkbox "our game supporting pssr" as its new thing.
Many developers did the same with FSR ! or some with VRS !
 
If Sony is allowing devs to release PS5 Pro patch with a crappy implementation of pssr that degrades image quality compared to the base version then I see the fault lies In Sony.

Edit: I suppose some fault may lie with the dev but in the end Sony needs to have QA to ensure that the product they're releasing is up to par. If there are glaring issues with a PS5 pro patch due to crappy pssr implementation then they need to tell the dev the patch needs to be delayed until it meets their quality requirements. That this isn't happening is very telling how they're approaching this. Shame on Sony.
 
If Sony is allowing devs to release PS5 Pro patch with a crappy implementation of pssr that degrades image quality compared to the base version then I see the fault lies In Sony.

Edit: I suppose some fault may lie with the dev but in the end Sony needs to have QA to ensure that the product they're releasing is up to par. If there are glaring issues with a PS5 pro patch due to crappy pssr implementation then they need to tell the dev the patch needs to be delayed until it meets their quality requirements. That this isn't happening is very telling how they're approaching this. Shame on Sony.
I don't think Sony has any say in how a dev ships a game. As long as it doesn't break the terms or has security issues, it can run horribly and there is nothing Sony will do about it. Cyberpunk was an exception because CDPR told people to request refunds and those went through Sony. The games are entirely the responsibility of the devs. Sony isn't a babysitter.

The publisher can tell a dev not to ship a product or release a patch. Sony has no authority over them as far as I'm aware.
 
I don't think Sony has any say in how a dev ships a game.
They absolutely do! It's their walled garden and they can place any requirements on any developer. Previous Sonys had extensive TRCs that your game had to manage without fault. This followed on from Nintendo's 'gold seal' to ensure mindless crap wasn't on their platform and a game on Nintendo was worth your money. Sony were selective of who could publish on their PlayStations, charged a significant entry cost which kept out the riffraff, and even penalised devs for patches back in the PS3 era - they charged for devs to patch, thereby making it more important to get it right first time, or then ensure patches wouldn't need further patches.

Standards have just dropped off a cliff with platforms becoming more and more Steam-like. Anyone can publish on PS now, with no quality standards whatsoever, and no enforcement of basic suitability-for-purpose, with Sony dragging their heels on refunds when they sell games that don't work properly.

A substantial, if not complete, portion of blame lies at Sony here. They released an upscaling tech that can effectively break in games, presented it as flawlessly awesome in their marketing, and now allow any old broken implementation to ruin PS5 Pro owner's experience. They should have not released it before it was ready, or ensured no game uses it wrongly, and not spite their £700 console purchases with this. Utterly disrespectful.
 
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I don't think Sony has any say in how a dev ships a game. As long as it doesn't break the terms or has security issues, it can run horribly and there is nothing Sony will do about it. Cyberpunk was an exception because CDPR told people to request refunds and those went through Sony. The games are entirely the responsibility of the devs. Sony isn't a babysitter.

The publisher can tell a dev not to ship a product or release a patch. Sony has no authority over them as far as I'm aware.
They absolutely do. All games patched and released go through certification each time.

Sony definitely has some say on the quality of release. Certain games should not have passed cert, but it does feel like since ps3 days, they have really lowered their standards because developers had such a hard time extracting performance out of that machine.
 
There's a simple fact which absolves Sony for the quality of PSSR in games which use it.. and that is that it is not a requirement, which means the choice to use PSSR is on the devs... and ultimately the quality of it is judged by each developer in their own game and they make the final call to include it or not.
 
That's just wiggling out of responsibility. Sony shouldn't be excusing a bad PS5 Pro experience, but ensuring it doesn't happen. And it absolutely is in their power to ensure that. They aren't sat at their desk wringing their hands, or pacing up and down pulling their hair, lamenting, "damn, our PS5 Pro looks really bad to our new owners due to these games but there's nothing we can do, developers using the libraries we gave them, and they've got us over a barrel. We'll just have to keep allowing these games to be sold and have egg on our face. Hopefully the devs will sort themselves out as this is just a really bad look for us. Boo hoo."
 
There's a simple fact which absolves Sony for the quality of PSSR in games which use it.. and that is that it is not a requirement, which means the choice to use PSSR is on the devs... and ultimately the quality of it is judged by each developer in their own game and they make the final call to include it or not.
The developers and publishers are told to make as much money as possible. They used the tools provided by Sony to
a) get more discovery
b) Support this new platform where Sony wants a large catalog of games to be 5Pro support as soon as possible
c) the reason developers do not offer settings is quite simply, because this is a console game! They are supposed to set the settings for you and you go. Players should not have to pay $700 for a new console and be given the question to ask whether they should be turning PSSR on or off. That's a confusing messaging here because Sony just told everyone it's infinitely better and PSSR is the main reason why you buy a 5pro! This isn't a PC. This is a console experience. It should just work and if it doesn't work, then that's on Sony.

I used to be on the side of just offering an option to select, but that's the biggest thing between consoles and PC, if that's the case, why not allow console players the full gamut of selection, where do we draw the line.
 
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