Its not just me, games used to be better

[see colon]

On the main subject, this is a bit like the current NBA vs the NBA from the 80s, 90s, 2000s, and early to mid 2010s. There were so many charismatic players, which current NBA lacks. 80s were amazing, 90s were amazing, 2000s and early/mid 2010s were amazing. After Bird, Magic, Jordan, you had Nowitzki, KB, Vince Carter, Steve Nash, Shaq!, then Curry and Thompson etc etc etc ect, a PLETHORA of charismatic players I could be all day typing names, those eras were constant awesomeness. The new NBA commissioner isn't good either.

You might be right about this, and I can't say because I haven't followed stick and ball sports for years so I can't name an active NBA player off the top of my head. But I do think there is something that happens when you age, where you are disconnected from popular culture in a way that you aren't when you are younger. There are musicians now that I have no idea who they are, but my kids listen to them and tell me all sorts of trivia about. They are charismatic and iconic to them in a way that musicians from my era were to me. I also think that the collective knowledge of most societies has been fractured with the advent of the internet. It used to be that most of the news you consumed for everything was controlled by your local newspaper, radio, and TV stations. Even when cable came along, there was one Cable News Network. Others followed, of course, but now we are fed information based on an algorithm that weights things that you already like, which by definition would give extra weight to things you already know.

This recent US election, near the end, saw both candidates hit multiple podcasts that I was assured by news stations and influencers are a big deal, but more than half of them I've never heard of before, and I forgot their names already. I did look a couple of them up at the time, and they had millions of subscribers, but I'd never heard of them. I don't think there would have been a person with that much influence as those podcasters in the 1980s without them being a household name. Back in the day, everyone knew who Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh were, but they only had about 20 million active listeners each at their peaks. Mr Beast had over 250 million viewers and around 25 million subscribers when I found out who he was because he was in ads for Honey, and I still didn't know his name until later when I said to a coworker "who's this dolt in the Honey ads acting like he's a big deal". She assured me he was a big deal. He was never presented to my on any platform because his content isn't in my interests, and therefor my algorithm.

 

[Cyan]

You might be right about this, and I can't say because I haven't followed stick and ball sports for years so I can't name an active NBA player off the top of my head. But I do think there is something that happens when you age, where you are disconnected from popular culture in a way that you aren't when you are younger. There are musicians now that I have no idea who they are, but my kids listen to them and tell me all sorts of trivia about. They are charismatic and iconic to them in a way that musicians from my era were to me. I also think that the collective knowledge of most societies has been fractured with the advent of the internet. It used to be that most of the news you consumed for everything was controlled by your local newspaper, radio, and TV stations. Even when cable came along, there was one Cable News Network. Others followed, of course, but now we are fed information based on an algorithm that weights things that you already like, which by definition would give extra weight to things you already know.

This recent US election, near the end, saw both candidates hit multiple podcasts that I was assured by news stations and influencers are a big deal, but more than half of them I've never heard of before, and I forgot their names already. I did look a couple of them up at the time, and they had millions of subscribers, but I'd never heard of them. I don't think there would have been a person with that much influence as those podcasters in the 1980s without them being a household name. Back in the day, everyone knew who Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh were, but they only had about 20 million active listeners each at their peaks. Mr Beast had over 250 million viewers and around 25 million subscribers when I found out who he was because he was in ads for Honey, and I still didn't know his name until later when I said to a coworker "who's this dolt in the Honey ads acting like he's a big deal". She assured me he was a big deal. He was never presented to my on any platform because his content isn't in my interests, and therefor my algorithm.

every generation you have some artist creating a song that passes the test of time and become timeless, and yeah, I feel like that too. As I am aging there are artists or people, or streamers that I don't follow 'cos maybe it's not one's thing. Or maybe it's just that every generation we get used to what we are given at that particular time?

In regards to the NBA, that's a more complex subject but even young NBA followers -like say Rachel Annamarie DeMita- admit that current NBA players aren't as good nor charismatic as they were in other eras. Maybe because current NBA players have everything, they are like rich prima donnas on the court who live in their own world of money, but they don't have the drive or passion or whatever, they are just treated too well.

To get back on topic, there are a few modern games that young and not so young people enjoy a lot. The co-op games thread in this subforum is a great example of that.

 

[snarfbot]

it's an interesting observation. that people are out there literally living in different worlds because "the algorithm"

but yea games are definitely worse.

 

[see colon]

In regards to the NBA, that's a more complex subject but even young NBA followers -like say Rachel Annamarie DeMita- admit that current NBA players aren't as good nor charismatic as they were in other eras. Maybe because current NBA players have everything, they are like rich prima donnas on the court who live in their own world of money, but they don't have the drive or passion or whatever, they are just treated too well.

It could be that, but it could also be that the average skill level of the NBA has increased, making it harder for any individual player to stand out. In baseball, you have a legend like Babe Ruth. Without questioning his greatness, would he be able to achieve such greatness against the players of today? It's harder to hit home runs against pitchers who are better. It's harder to pitch shutouts against batters who are better.

it's an interesting observation. that people are out there literally living in different worlds because "the algorithm"

Regarding sports, I don't think my kids have ever watched the sports segment of the nightly news. Or the nightly news, for that matter. They just watch garbage on youtube, and shows on Disney+ and Netflix. There's no way for them to organically learn about any sports star, except maybe talking to another kid at school. My oldest child, who is now in his 20s, discovered John Cena when he was being meme'd all over the internet, but had no concept who he was and asked me to explain the meme. For a few months after that, whenever we met new people I would introduce him and tell the people that John Cena is his favorite pro wrestler, to which my kid would always say "No he's not!", and I would reply "Name another pro wrestler", and he couldn't, because he knew nothing about pro wrestling. The only wrestler who broke into his algorithm was Cena, who had already filmed several movies and done a bunch of charity work, and my kid would have never heard of him had he not appeared in memes that infected the spaces he existed in at the time.

 

[ZebMacahan]

It could be that, but it could also be that the average skill level of the NBA has increased, making it harder for any individual player to stand out. In baseball, you have a legend like Babe Ruth. Without questioning his greatness, would he be able to achieve such greatness against the players of today? It's harder to hit home runs against pitchers who are better. It's harder to pitch shutouts against batters who are better.


Regarding sports, I don't think my kids have ever watched the sports segment of the nightly news. Or the nightly news, for that matter. They just watch garbage on youtube, and shows on Disney+ and Netflix. There's no way for them to organically learn about any sports star, except maybe talking to another kid at school. My oldest child, who is now in his 20s, discovered John Cena when he was being meme'd all over the internet, but had no concept who he was and asked me to explain the meme. For a few months after that, whenever we met new people I would introduce him and tell the people that John Cena is his favorite pro wrestler, to which my kid would always say "No he's not!", and I would reply "Name another pro wrestler", and he couldn't, because he knew nothing about pro wrestling. The only wrestler who broke into his algorithm was Cena, who had already filmed several movies and done a bunch of charity work, and my kid would have never heard of him had he not appeared in memes that infected the spaces he existed in at the time.

 

[techuse]

You might have a point when it comes to AAA games. But there are games out there made by passionate developers I can assure you. It's just that you aren't going to see those featured in articles, videos, etc, and people don't know about them.

i.d. Unfrozen Studio developers, which are working on the spiritual successor of Heroes of Might & Magic 3, a game called Heroes of Might & Magic: Olden Era.

https://www.unfrozen.studio/

This is how they describe themselves.

About

www.unfrozen.studio

And also.



This is their motto.

The only thing missing is using the word local co-op or split-screen co-op more, but other than that they sound pretty awesome to me.

That seems like a fairly common description for new studios.

 

[Seanspeed]

It could be that, but it could also be that the average skill level of the NBA has increased, making it harder for any individual player to stand out.

Not only has the average skill level increased, but people are clearly not watching the NBA if they dont think superstars dont still exist. Curry is still playing and is basically as good as ever. LeBron is still somehow a major force. Anthony Edwards is a new superstar in the making. Jokic may not be some 'explosive' player but he's still amazing to watch. Doncic is a weekly highlight machine. Giannis is fantastic. Wemby is obviously already turning out to be ridiculous. Ja Morant is another highlight machine but in a more classic way with the big dunks and all. Honestly could list a bunch more.

NBA is filled with star power and the overall competition across the league is generally stronger, too.

 

[tuna]

It could be that, but it could also be that the average skill level of the NBA has increased, making it harder for any individual player to stand out. In baseball, you have a legend like Babe Ruth. Without questioning his greatness, would he be able to achieve such greatness against the players of today? It's harder to hit home runs against pitchers who are better. It's harder to pitch shutouts against batters who are better.

I don't know much about baseboll, but isn't Shohei Ootani the same statistical outlier as Babe Ruth?

 

[see colon]

I don't know much about baseboll, but isn't Shohei Ootani the same statistical outlier as Babe Ruth?

I don't even know who he is. I don't watch baseball. How many combined no hitters has he pitched?

 

[Nesh]

One thing I dislike with many games is how tasks are described in manners where you don't understand shit, or it doesn't matter if you understand the task to begin with. Under the "explanations" it's a boring gameplay mechanic. You just turn on a cursor, go to place, press button something happens, then you set new cursor, go to another place press button and repeat with the occasional enemy fights in between.

You just skim through the game and don't remember any experience because it's a repetition.

Very few games manage to keep the player glued with memorable moments and variety.

Most games today give me that boring feeling I described above.

 

[homerdog]

I don't even know who he is. I don't watch baseball. How many combined no hitters has he pitched?

He is the best baseball player of all time. Simultaneously the best hitter and pitcher on his team I mean wtf.

 

[Cyan]

Not only has the average skill level increased, but people are clearly not watching the NBA if they dont think superstars dont still exist. Curry is still playing and is basically as good as ever. LeBron is still somehow a major force. Anthony Edwards is a new superstar in the making. Jokic may not be some 'explosive' player but he's still amazing to watch. Doncic is a weekly highlight machine. Giannis is fantastic. Wemby is obviously already turning out to be ridiculous. Ja Morant is another highlight machine but in a more classic way with the big dunks and all. Honestly could list a bunch more.

NBA is filled with star power and the overall competition across the league is generally stronger, too.

skill level? No hand checking allowed, the 3 seconds rule in the zone..., Luka Doncic admitted that without the 3 seconds rule you lose like 10 points a game on average, that's why NBA players stats really drop when the play the FIBA World Championship. Giannis Antetokoumpo only averaged 15 points in FIBA basket games, while on the NBA he was a major force...

I agree on Curry, as good as ever, but the guy is innate talent. Lebron...., well, it's just Leroids. Players of the past had it tougher. The list you provided is really small. It's good sure. But in the late 90s, 2000s and 2010s until 2015 or so I could name a lot of great players, there was SO many talented players.

NBA spectators numbers went really really downhill. There's no defence. Most plays are just drop step, 3-pointer after 3-pointer. It's boring imho. And no charismatic Shaq Attack, Michal Jordan, The Glove, Hakeem the Dream Olajuwon, David Robinson the Admiral, Tim Duncan, Dirk Robin Hood Nowitzki, Kobe, Vince Carter and his cousing Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Allen Inverson, Pau Gasol, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Kevin Garnett, Jason Richardson, Jason Williams white chocolate, Mike Bibby, Paul Pierce, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Mark Price -one of the best shooters ever iirc, in the exclusive club of the 50-40-90-, Jose Calderon, Grant Hill, Horace Grant and his weird but fun looking glasses, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Rithmond, Glen Rice, 3D Dennis Scott, Shawn Kemp one of the best athletes ever, Detchlef Shremp, Chris Mullin, Magic, Bird, etc etc etc etc etc well, I remember many more but I am tired of typing.

I follow NBA nowadays, and even buy the NBA 2K games but the current roster isn't as charismatic.

That seems like a fairly common description for new studios.

you might be right tbh, since I don't know about that. Gotta say that eastern Europe developers are usually very passionate developers and love classic games. Also russian developers really love the turn based games and they have a lot of mods and have worked on games like Heroes of Might & Magic and the spiritual successor, King's Bounty. Great games overall, you won't go wrong with those.

 

[techuse]

you might be right tbh, since I don't know about that. Gotta say that eastern Europe developers are usually very passionate developers and love classic games. Also russian developers really love the turn based games and they have a lot of mods and have worked on games like Heroes of Might & Magic and the spiritual successor, King's Bounty. Great games overall, you won't go wrong with those.

I tend to play bigger budget titles so perhaps the indy scene is different, but in my sample, it honestly seems like a large majority of developers are absolutely clueless when it comes to game design. It’s easy to understand tech issues as that is super complex and qualified talent is no longer prevalent, but there is no excuse for completely brain dead game design.

 

[see colon]

I tend to play bigger budget titles so perhaps the indy scene is different, but in my sample, it honestly seems like a large majority of developers are absolutely clueless when it comes to game design. It’s easy to understand tech issues as that is super complex and qualified talent is no longer prevalent, but there is no excuse for completely brain dead game design.

Big budget games are like going out to eat at Olive Garden, though. You almost always getter a better, or at least more unique plate at a mom and pop.

 

[trinibwoy]

He is the best baseball player of all time. Simultaneously the best hitter and pitcher on his team I mean wtf.

Hmmm I’m not a baseball fan so didn’t know Ohtani was that good. I’m not a hockey fan either but I heard a ton about Gretzky. Why isnt there much mainstream buzz about Ohtani?

 

[see colon]

Hmmm I’m not a baseball fan so didn’t know Ohtani was that good. I’m not a hockey fan either but I heard a ton about Gretzky. Why isnt there much mainstream buzz about Ohtani?

This is what I've been saying. I bet there is a bunch of buzz in all of the media that touch baseball. You and I apparently don't consume that media. The great algorithm know we don't follow baseball, and it never shows us baseball.

Again, it used to be that the evening news gave you a little of everything. Now, we get information tailored only to our tastes.

 

[Seanspeed]

skill level? No hand checking allowed, the 3 seconds rule in the zone..., Luka Doncic admitted that without the 3 seconds rule you lose like 10 points a game on average, that's why NBA players stats really drop when the play the FIBA World Championship. Giannis Antetokoumpo only averaged 15 points in FIBA basket games, while on the NBA he was a major force...

I agree on Curry, as good as ever, but the guy is innate talent. Lebron...., well, it's just Leroids. Players of the past had it tougher. The list you provided is really small. It's good sure. But in the late 90s, 2000s and 2010s until 2015 or so I could name a lot of great players, there was SO many talented players.

NBA spectators numbers went really really downhill. There's no defence. Most plays are just drop step, 3-pointer after 3-pointer. It's boring imho. And no charismatic Shaq Attack, Michal Jordan, The Glove, Hakeem the Dream Olajuwon, David Robinson the Admiral, Tim Duncan, Dirk Robin Hood Nowitzki, Kobe, Vince Carter and his cousing Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Allen Inverson, Pau Gasol, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Kevin Garnett, Jason Richardson, Jason Williams white chocolate, Mike Bibby, Paul Pierce, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Mark Price -one of the best shooters ever iirc, in the exclusive club of the 50-40-90-, Jose Calderon, Grant Hill, Horace Grant and his weird but fun looking glasses, Penny Hardaway, Mitch Rithmond, Glen Rice, 3D Dennis Scott, Shawn Kemp one of the best athletes ever, Detchlef Shremp, Chris Mullin, Magic, Bird, etc etc etc etc etc well, I remember many more but I am tired of typing.

I follow NBA nowadays, and even buy the NBA 2K games but the current roster isn't as charismatic.


you might be right tbh, since I don't know about that. Gotta say that eastern Europe developers are usually very passionate developers and love classic games. Also russian developers really love the turn based games and they have a lot of mods and have worked on games like Heroes of Might & Magic and the spiritual successor, King's Bounty. Great games overall, you won't go wrong with those.

I kept the list short for brevity, not cuz I couldn't name a dozen other obvious star NBA players. Tatum, AD, Durant, Jaylen Brown, Brunson, Lillard, etc. I could keep going, too. Also, LeRoids, seriously? LeBron doesn't even play like he used to, he's more of like a general of the court now, smartest player in the league and it's kept him relevant as hell. He is not(nor has he ever) skating by purely on physicality or anything.

And sure, there's criticisms of how the modern game is played, but they ARE better players nowadays on average. And teams win more often because of this all round talent instead of just relying on like one or two people.

 

[tuna]

Hmmm I’m not a baseball fan so didn’t know Ohtani was that good. I’m not a hockey fan either but I heard a ton about Gretzky. Why isnt there much mainstream buzz about Ohtani?

You should have been in Japan when Japan beat the US in the baseball national teams world cup!

 

[tuna]

I follow NBA nowadays, and even buy the NBA 2K games but the current roster isn't as charismatic.

I think this is just you being old and jaded.

 

[techuse]

Would a dream team from the pre-2000 NBA beat a dream team from today’s NBA? I think so.