Will the cost of entry be 'much lower', though? That's what I'm questioning. Improvements in performance per dollar are dying out.
And ray tracing is already required to play some games today.
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2024] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
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And ray tracing is already required to play some games today.
All things you dont need an expensive phone for.
Even cameras have hit heavy diminishing returns on improvements in the past 4-5 years. What exists today is really not any significant leap on the camera of my $350 Pixel 4a from 2020(which is basically the same camera from years' prior Pixels).
As I've said, I do not consider 1080p to be an acceptable 'next gen' or 'great' experience in 2024.
You're really just kind of making my point here.
Yes the pace of improvement is slowing but it’s not stagnant. It will get cheaper just not as fast as it did before.
That’s fine if you feel that way. Millions of other people on the other hand are likely having a blast at 1080p. A terrible game at 4K is a much worse experience than a great game at a lower resolution.
It's not that you cant have fun gaming at 1080p. But it's not next gen. It's clearly a dated resolution standard at this point. Like 95% of TV's on the market in the past five years have been 4K. 4K monitors have also been super affordable for years now.
And the real point is that things are terrible if you can spend $400 on the latest GPU tech and still have to game at 1080p. That's just crappy.
And you say that things will improve in terms of cost, but I've seen lots of people arguing that it wont. That it cant. I dont quite agree, but I think companies are also very reluctant to offer improvements in performance per dollar even if they could easily afford to, because 'F U Give Me Money'. And until that changes, then ray tracing is not gonna be the future, unless we're talking many years down the road. Minute improvements in performance per dollar every two year generation is gonna make it take ages to get to where ray tracing is viable with decent settings, resolution and performance on affordable hardware. And then full on path tracing? Forget about it.
I prefer devs focus on visual quality over image quality past a point. Obviously that point will vary depending on the type of game and visuals they're trying to create.. but in my mind I want them to create the best visuals possible, and then allow future hardware to push up the image quality.
It's why I selfishly always want PS studios to push fidelity higher and target 30fps. It "future proofs" the games for future hardware, and gives mid-gen more of a reason to exist. All these settings and modes being options just limits devs ability to truly focus on a singular high quality experience.
It's why I selfishly always want PS studios to push fidelity higher and target 30fps. It "future proofs" the games for future hardware, and gives mid-gen more of a reason to exist. All these settings and modes being options just limits devs ability to truly focus on a singular high quality experience.
raytracingfan
Newcomer
Ray tracing will become mandatory during the PS6 generation regardless of opinions on it. There won't be modes without ray tracing on console or options to turn it off on PC.
Yes we are talking many years down the road if only because of the consoles. Devs aren’t going to abandon the PS5 and XSX anytime soon.
Nobody with a modern nVidia GPU is playing in 1080p. They are using DLSS performance to upscale to 90% of the native 4K quality.
Honestly I would guess the opposite. People playing multiplayer games at 1080p to get the highest fps they can.
raytracingfan
Newcomer
FSR 3 Frame Generation already works on consoles. The catch with FG is that you should already have a consistent 60FPS and use FG to boost it further. If the base frame rate is lower there will be a noticeable increase in input lag.
This is the official text. However, both Afmf2 and Lossless Scaling work great even at 30 FPS, practice shows this. The lag is barely noticeable in singleplayer games, it will be fine there. I bet they are already working on a console version, which is better than the plain FSR3 motion generation.
Unfortunately these consoles using off the shelf hardware became dated quickly as the hardware they used was pre transition.
With RT, ML based upscaling and frame gen coming into the picture early into this console generation’s life, they were unable to adapt as the hardware had no consideration for these technologies.
What you’re seeing with PS5 Pro is effectively making up for that gap in capability. However not much can be done for the vanilla consoles. They missed the boat and it is what it is.
With RT, ML based upscaling and frame gen coming into the picture early into this console generation’s life, they were unable to adapt as the hardware had no consideration for these technologies.
What you’re seeing with PS5 Pro is effectively making up for that gap in capability. However not much can be done for the vanilla consoles. They missed the boat and it is what it is.
I don’t necessarily think this is true.
With AMDs announcement let’s see how far back they are willing to allow their ML based upscaler on.
If they can achieve dlss1.9 level quality on console. I think I would consider that a win over TAAU.
In the past when dev costs were less, and art and games were simpler, with no ready engines, the devs were focusing time and budget working within the confines of the hardware, trying to find ways to push the capabilities.
These days a lot more time is spent on art assets, complexity of games means devs need to focus on actually making the game and are working within the confines of ready engines while trying to create two modes that are at least serviceable. Consoles are treated like PCs now by fiddling with configurations since they are pretty much almost the same hardware.
Games are more complex by design but game development is simpler at the same time.
Technical work diving into the hardware specifics coding to the metal is probably work only reserved for first party studios and IF, considering the unsustainable game production.
DF analysis in older games was so much interesting because of the additional technical work put into those games that no longer is as pronounced
I believe that's the reason why we get such low resolutions and the wow factor is barely present in the console space anymore
These days a lot more time is spent on art assets, complexity of games means devs need to focus on actually making the game and are working within the confines of ready engines while trying to create two modes that are at least serviceable. Consoles are treated like PCs now by fiddling with configurations since they are pretty much almost the same hardware.
Games are more complex by design but game development is simpler at the same time.
Technical work diving into the hardware specifics coding to the metal is probably work only reserved for first party studios and IF, considering the unsustainable game production.
DF analysis in older games was so much interesting because of the additional technical work put into those games that no longer is as pronounced
I believe that's the reason why we get such low resolutions and the wow factor is barely present in the console space anymore
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AMD would be smart to leave things behind and start fresh. Esp if they can use that to get some wins from nvidia. 7000 series are piss poor and holding back the 8000 series to appease that market and prior adds no value.
They need to gain marketshare and bring something fresh and new to the table.
I’m not sure I agree with that either.
They’ve expanded their product base into igpus with NPUs, there are mobile handhelds, etc. if they can get ML upscaling working on lower end devices they stand to sell considerably more of them than trying to lock them to the latest feature set.
The market size is just so much larger for mainstream devices, and AMD has already made a statement that they will cede the high end market.
AMD owns most of the console market as well as the budding handheld PC market. Their recent wins in the traditional PC space have been in the lower end, so of course they are focusing on the value end of the market.
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