He's preparing the ground for MS being a major 3rd party publisher. This is the new business model. The implications on their gaming hw arent clear yet. I see Sony is continuing to adapt their hw by bringing down the cost to manufacture each system as well as making a pro model but looking at the 2TB discless Series X, it seems they really dont have a budget to invest in redesigning the hw. I find this similar to their marketing budget for Xbox, you barely see any ads for Xbox maybe gamepass on the internet.
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
- Thread starter iroboto
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So, I keep seeing 3rd party games not getting Xbox releases. The latest is this: https://www.eurogamer.net/caravan-sandwitch-review
Steam, Switch, and PS5, but not Xbox.
1) Why is this?
2) That's pretty off-putting for the platform. Xbox will be the one machine where you don't get all the games. not even MS exclusives which come to PC and PS5.
Steam, Switch, and PS5, but not Xbox.
1) Why is this?
2) That's pretty off-putting for the platform. Xbox will be the one machine where you don't get all the games. not even MS exclusives which come to PC and PS5.
No $$ to be made.
I think you’re seeing blowback from gamepass. Xbox community is all subbed up, and purchasing of titles is going down. They won’t port to Xbox without some sort of gamepass deal otherwise there is no profit to be made.
That's my suspicion, but then it seems GP backfired. XB is the console you buy if you want to play GP and whatever games are on it. If you want the freedom to get any game anywhere, buy some other platform. PC is far and away the better option for MS gaming now as you have GP as an option (although not the same library yet?) plus every game under the sun including Steam indies. XBSX vs PS5, PS5 offers more games. XBSS is the budget console and only affordable one, but the library is somewhat constrained.
GamePass turned Xbox into a 'Netflix console'.
GamePass turned Xbox into a 'Netflix console'.
The model has changed for sure. The gamepass deals are lucrative, because gamepass gets so many people playing and trying your title. It’s highly desirable and sought after for indies. They are likely to make all the other platforms and hold out on Xbox until they get one. Personally I don’t know. The competition is fierce to get a deal, gamepass only allows so many titles active at one time.
Xbox can get back into a more traditional retail model but their user base needs to expand greatly. Likely I see most of this growth through PC and cloud streaming (with title ownership) however. The console space, may not yield much until they have a large library of games that people desire.
Honestly at this point I'm a bit concerned. I plan on playing GTA 6 on my Series X since the PS5 pro is offensively priced. I just hope MS doesnt mess around with Rockstar and lead to a delay of the Series launch, because at that point I'll just buy a PS5 pro.
Frenetic Pony
Veteran
I just realized what "3rd party stores on the next Xbox" could be
The Iphone, in the EU, allows 3rd party stores. They run the store, Apple takes 17% of all revenue which is 90+% of the profit margin of any store. The Iphone is "open" now, so antitrust can fuck off. I wouldn't doubt for a second Microsoft took one look and said "yeah, we can do that". It's their way to beat Steam.
The Iphone, in the EU, allows 3rd party stores. They run the store, Apple takes 17% of all revenue which is 90+% of the profit margin of any store. The Iphone is "open" now, so antitrust can fuck off. I wouldn't doubt for a second Microsoft took one look and said "yeah, we can do that". It's their way to beat Steam.
Charlietus
Regular
Apple and their implementation of the DMA aren't going to last long. They are going to become truly open, sooner rather than later. The EU is investigating
traditional hardware and a handheld?
"We’re building plans for the 25th anniversary of Halo and Xbox," Microsoft confirms in a new interview. "We have such a rich heritage, you have to celebrate that."
www.windowscentral.com
"We’re building plans for the 25th anniversary of Halo and Xbox," Microsoft confirms in a new interview. "We have such a rich heritage, you have to celebrate that."
"We’re building plans for the 25th anniversary of Halo and Xbox," Microsoft confirms in a new interview. "We have such a rich heritage, you have to celebrate that."
A big Microsoft milestone is coming up for its gaming division.
www.windowscentral.com
Charlietus
Regular
So a high end console and a handheld? No low cost series s style console?traditional hardware and a handheld?
"We’re building plans for the 25th anniversary of Halo and Xbox," Microsoft confirms in a new interview. "We have such a rich heritage, you have to celebrate that."
"We’re building plans for the 25th anniversary of Halo and Xbox," Microsoft confirms in a new interview. "We have such a rich heritage, you have to celebrate that."
A big Microsoft milestone is coming up for its gaming division.
I can't see how this would stop the sales bleeding. Maybe that's what they want.
Having a higher-end box that's tied to your tv and a lower end portable that could be docked like a switch could actually be a pretty nice combo. They'd have to be really careful about forcing games to exist on both kits. If the portable is too under-powered, it would really hold back games.
Although the handheld would be expensive versus a cheap entry-level Series S style box. You'd basically price out the low end and potentially limit yourself to PS5 style numbers, a bit more for those for whom a $500+ console is too much but a $500 handheld is okay.
Also, can I just remind everyone that I suggested the idea of a tablet/handheld with TV out hybrid back in the PS3 era as a future Sony PlayStation?
And my idea is still better, having a camera and perching the device next to a TV for motion gaming alongside everything else. 
Also, can I just remind everyone that I suggested the idea of a tablet/handheld with TV out hybrid back in the PS3 era as a future Sony PlayStation?
And my idea is still better, having a camera and perching the device next to a TV for motion gaming alongside everything else. Charlietus
Regular
I don't see Xbox making something that's underpowered compared to the steam decks or ROG ally's of today. And that goes for Sony's too, those portables prices are going to start at 500.
As much as the series s gets bashed online, a slightly better series s style device is the way to expand the console market again (with some marketing, right Xbox?).
Imagine if Nvidia decided to not make the xx60, xx50 cards anymore. It would be a disaster. But that's what happened with Sony this gen, and they are paying for it.
Charlietus
Regular
That camera concept is pretty neatAlthough the handheld would be expensive versus a cheap entry-level Series S style box. You'd basically price out the low end and potentially limit yourself to PS5 style numbers, a bit more for those for whom a $500+ console is too much but a $500 handheld is okay.
Also, can I just remind everyone that I suggested the idea of a tablet/handheld with TV out hybrid back in the PS3 era as a future Sony PlayStation?
You have to make sure it has the same amount of RAM as the high end model. Otherwise a combination of a handheld+ home console gives you the option of a 1080p handheld device and a 4K gaming console. You can have a lower amount of memory on the handheld if its not targeting 4K.
Charlietus
Regular
We are going towards next gen where developers are going to support switch 2 with 12gb (and cross gen will be going for a while, so series s too). Those handhelds could have 12gb and it wouldn't really be a problem (but with a slimmer os, can't occupy 3,5gb's of ram, maybe 2gb's).
It will be interesting to see how the Switch 2 holds up when we'll be getting 32GB+ consoles next gen, ofcourse the cross gen period will help as you've mentioned. What will also help is the fact that they dont do feature parity with much more powerful hardware and have a dedicated SDK and devkit for the system so it wont be a pain for devs. What I was saying is if Xbox releases a handheld where they require feature parity with a next gen system then they'll be in a world of pain just like today with the Series S.
Charlietus
Regular
I don't see consoles getting 32gb. Maybe if we get pro consoles at launch for 800€/$.
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If we follow this regression, DRAM prices drop by 5% YoY.
So to keep the same prices today but to double the DRAM would require the following:
Basically inverse principal interest, or rather principal decay formula:
It will take approximately 13.5 years for $100 to decrease to $50 with a 5% annual reduction.
That's when they can keep the same price point but double the memory to 32GB.
This generation released in 2020, so we are looking at 2033/34 approximately to get to 32GB of memory if we want to hold the 499 price point.
Flash storage however will gain double the storage every 3 years for the same price point. The 2TB is overpriced today in theory. By 5 years it should be 1/4 the price we paid in 2020. And 8.8 years to be 1/10th the amount we paid, so by next gen (2028) flash memory could be nearly 10x greater with the same amount of $ used on storage today.
We can probably leverage the savings in the storage to help increase the DRAM pool here by next gen.
So assume next generation is 2028.
DRAM prices will be down 34% from 2020.
Storage prices are down 88% from 2020.
It's possible that 32GB is in the cards, but all of those savings would mean the console is stuck at 1TB in 2028.
We haven't accounted for silicon prices and cooling that silicon however.
To double the power of todays consoles (actually double, not double submission) we need to move from 15.4B transistors to 30B transistors approximately, possibly more. If the cost per transistor doesn't come down (lets say it has marginal decreases in cost), you're basically doubling the cost of the chip here.
So we need to ensure some of those storage savings also need to cover the cost of silicon increases, and we haven't yet touched on cooling yet, or the fact that more transistors will naturally require more bandwidth, so having 32GB of DRAM combined with doubling the bandwidth will mean significantly costs, essentially 16 chips of 2GB which is a 512-bit bus.
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