Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
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Charlietus
Regular
Makes sense, as ai acceleration in the CU's should be much better than having a separate NPU, thanks to lower latency.
Is there any evidence for this?
Charlietus
Regular
I think some engineer talked about it somewhere, but I don't remember where I heard this.
Probably during the first PS5 pro rumors, that were saying that the pro had a NPU.
Cute...
Charlietus
Regular
I mean, it makes sense. Both nvidia and Intel aren't using a NPU, and having the ai processing inside the compute units instead of somewhere around the chip gets you lower latency=better performance.Cute...
Intel uses an NPU processing unit in its latest CPUs. That's what I was thinking, NPUs will be part of CPUs, and that's the faster solution. This is not the same as just AI acceleration in GPU CU. A separate discrete chip is not necessarily required.
Charlietus
Regular
But if they are making an APU, why wouldn't you put it in the GPU compute units? Those npu's in the CPU pale in comparison to modern GPU's capabilities, and integrating it "inside" the CPU isn't a proven concept.
It is not worth directly comparing the TOPS performance of GPUs and NPUs. NPUs are more efficient in their own field, because they are specifically designed for artificial intelligence tasks, more efficient than the accelerations designed for this purpose in GPU CUs. For GPUs, the TOPS values provided are only theoretical and include all calculations performed by the GPU, including, for example, graphics operations. Therefore, it is impossible to tell how much TOPS is actually left for the AI while running a game with high graphics details. Additionally, using an NPU prevents the GPU from being unnecessarily burdened by repetitive AI calculations, as a specially designed NPU with its own memory modules is better able to handle these tasks.
It is true that this will show itself in practice.
Charlietus
Regular
Admittedly, I don't know enough about the subject. So
AI Engine Technology
www.xilinx.com
Sorry misspelled the company's name
I am not well versed in what is needed in terms of ram amount. I guess MS could do fast ram for graphics and a pool of slower ram for AI ?
I just don't see them adding another chip to a battery operated device
Frenetic Pony
Veteran
I can't see a "console" at all for next gen. This will greatly affect the console fan mentality, they won't "trust Microsoft anymore" and just assume all games will come to other platforms. As far as I can tell that's how that attitude works, you need exclusivity to fee like part of a superior "club".
What I can see is a pair of mini PCs. To reiterate, this seems to make sense with "Xbox Surface". If it's a PC it's a PC of course there's no exclusive games for it. Of course, if it's a PC that means it gets all the Sony games that come to PC too. God of War and Forbidden West on the next Xbox, no effort required.
I can see this line of logic making sense to Microsoft execs. Gaming PCs are where they're successful, but Steam has taken all of that $$$. If say, Windows 12 and Xbox Surface, can claw that back they can make a ton of money off games without needing a single exclusive.
Or sensibly economical?
There's no quality requirement though. IF your PC struggles, that's on you; buy a better PC. On console, they need a reasonable performance that comes from optimisation work...
Total XBS sales is 20 something million, so XBSS is around the ten million mark. NSW is at least 10x that. PS4 not far behind. If there were 50 million XBSS out there, it'd probably be a different story.
The Series S and X versions are literally different versions, with the API calls and driver stuff all compiled through into the distributable. It's different from the PC in that regard, where the installer and the GPU driver setup the game based on the particular hardware and driver version that the game finds on a given PC.
On PC there is an OS managed page file that means running out of physical memory doesn't usually translate into a crash. You can't just look at the amount of memory a game can run at on PC and say that a game must therefore be able to run on a console with (almost) as much memory.
On a machine with 4 Gigs of Vram and 8 Gigs of main ram the game can probably use up to around 3.5GB of vram and as much as 7GB of main ram. As more ram is needed for the game the OS moves more onto the pagefile, eventually even moving some of the game itself over. This can cause big stutters and other performance issues, but it shouldn't crash if the game code can handle waiting. On console you have none of this. When the Series S runs out of it's ~8GB of game memory the game will have a big issue.
BG3 had a particular issue with splitscreen on Series S because of the memory. With that free roaming split screen mode dropped, and some further work on the game's footprint, the game now runs well on Series S.
I agree but to be very fair to console gamers, it makes sense when from an early age they are introduced to this simple gaming experience. Parents are not going to spend $1000 on PCs for their 7 year old. They'll buy them a playstation or nintendo switch. These are the future grown gamers of tomorrow and they demand that simple gaming experience. Exclusivity is fundamentally derived from an expectation that devs are fully committed to the hw/ecosystem before providing their titles to other platforms.
I agree they may not make another console. But they will be a big third party publisher for Sony and Nintendo(and Valve).You're right they could try some sort of PC approach but the question is can they execute it well? Its interesting because they made all the mistakes to kill their hw then turn around and say its due to industry changes which isnt truthful. When they fail to execute on other fronts they will try to say its because of some other x reason. Xbox was the only hw division of the company where MS was actually doing well due to the great work done by Seamus Blackely, Ed Fries, etc. Today the Don Mattricks and Phil Spencers have destroyed a lot of those fundamentals. And its really questionable whether they can execute well moving forward besides relying on acquisitions.
Yeah this is a win win for everyone. Although I dont see Sony or Nintendo releasing their games day and date on PC, more titles will eventually be coming to PC.
Steam OS is becoming available to OEMs as well. This could cause issues to MS's business plans for transitioning the Xbox to some sort of Open model. But yes this makes for them to have an Xbox surface type device. Again its about execution which they havent been good at, but that good change
As a parent, I've always just passed my old PC parts down to my kids. My oldest got his first PC when he was 4 or 5. No access to the internet, of course, but he mostly played Reader Rabbit and Jump Start games back then.
This is great, my first experience with gaming was on my dad's work laptop back in 1994/5, it was prince of persia in colour, then it was Sonic on a Sega saturn iirc. Then Fifa on PC around 1999. But mine and your kids experiences isnt a typifying example for most people. A lot of people have their first real gaming experiences either on a home console or portable console for a lot of reasons including cost. So for those born in the early 90s it was Sega Saturns, Sony playstation, Gameboys, N64s. Those born in the late to early 2000s, it was Dreamcast, Gameboy, PS2, Xbox, Gamecube.
Those born recently it is actually iPads and iPhones as well as the playstation, switch and which ever company takes their hw seriously. Possibly we'll see more hybrid systems like Steamdeck being introduced to kids at a younger age but you can see why a lot of parents will prefer getting their kids Nintendo devices at a young age. There are a lot more controls over what kind of content they are providing the kids with such devices and no need to adjust any settings to play. You just play. Even when I get kids most likely going to get them a Nintendo or playstation when they are around 7 or whatever portal device from these two companies exists then. Then I'll introduce them to PCs when they are a bit older if they havent done so themselves or if they develop the interest.
But good on you for giving your kids access to PCs back then you gave them a good headstart.
Xbox boss reacts to Indiana Jones announcement on PS5 by recalling the results of bringing Xbox games to PlayStation.
He mentions that at the 32:30 mark in the video, approx.
He also mentions that we just have to anticipate that there will be more changes.
"The last thing I'm gonna say is that right now, there is a lot of pressure in the industry, it's been growing for a long time and now people are looking for ways to grow. And I think that we just have to anticipate that there will be more changes, and how some on the traditional ways and how games are designed and distributed, that's going to change for all of us, but the end result is that more people can play and for us not to be focused on that, we'd be focusing on the wrong things, so for us, the health of Xbox, the health of our platform, and the growth of our games are the most important things.".
He mentions that at the 32:30 mark in the video, approx.
He also mentions that we just have to anticipate that there will be more changes.
"The last thing I'm gonna say is that right now, there is a lot of pressure in the industry, it's been growing for a long time and now people are looking for ways to grow. And I think that we just have to anticipate that there will be more changes, and how some on the traditional ways and how games are designed and distributed, that's going to change for all of us, but the end result is that more people can play and for us not to be focused on that, we'd be focusing on the wrong things, so for us, the health of Xbox, the health of our platform, and the growth of our games are the most important things.".
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