Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[rntongo]

There's a rumor about an halo remaster for ps5.
I don't know if it's a leak or a made up news, or even a probe news originated from Microsoft to check the public's reaction*, but what's interesting is that nobody dismissed it as an absurdity.
BTW, I've never understood halo's charme, and getting old I've moved far away from fast shooters. I just remember getting lost in under detailed small corridors, and being instakilled in multiplayer. After so many years, it's still relevant?

*
- Phil we have the response from the public!
- Aaaand?
- They don't care! We did it!
- Excellent. But they don't care about us going multiplatform, or they don't care anymore about anything that we do?
- I haven't asked...
- Don't worry, anyway is there that we are heading.

The original HALO is one of the best titles I ever played. But when I played Halo Infinite's campaign I was shocked by how backward it was. Its a great IP but stuck in around 2003. The multiplayer is fun actually but nothing next gen or something thats going to bing in new generation of players. Especially with all the modern FPS titles available today.

I agree as well the Halo remaster for PS5 is likely a controlled leak from the MS team to get people used to a multiplatform future for more Xbox titles.

 

[eastmen]

The original HALO is one of the best titles I ever played. But when I played Halo Infinite's campaign I was shocked by how backward it was. Its a great IP but stuck in around 2003. The multiplayer is fun actually but nothing next gen or something thats going to bing in new generation of players. Especially with all the modern FPS titles available today.

I agree as well the Halo remaster for PS5 is likely a controlled leak from the MS team to get people used to a multiplatform future for more Xbox titles.

It's likely just Master chief edition coming to PS5.

 

[RDGoodla]

It is likely that there will not be any price cut of consoles.

xsx 2TB $599...xss 1TB $349......

 

[Cyan]

Very few people want to sit on their couch and boot into windows even with big picture mode.

They want games optimized for console type gaming with a fool proof operating system and interface.

totally right. If they manage to create a hybrid handheld or the software for hardware companies to make one and make Windows as seamless as possible for users, that would be a triumph. Dunno if they are going to create another traditional console, it seems very likely, but even on an "pure" gaming PC like mine, where you must know the craft of certain things, pc gamepass is the closest thing to having an Xbox, despite its flaws.

When I play a game on PC Gamepass I feel like I am playing on my old Xbox --I had 3 Xbox consoles (OG XB, X360, XB1) during 10 years -from 2005 to 2015-.

PC gamepass has seamless gamepad detection...., I have all my old Xbox Live friends there, the achievements work like on the console and it's fully integrated on the OS. Also capturing a frame or recording a video is easy. Dunno about using the mic to talk with friends since I never tried, but I think it works fine.

For someone who don't want to deal with Windows stuff even if Windows is running under everything, MS have a long way to go though. So many things to list here, but even the PC gamepass app can get messy with windows popping-up to confirm it's you or to tell you the game is going to be associated to your account, etc etc.

Windows shenanigans is just another story, too. But when you are playing a game on pc gamepass, if you were a Xbox user, you feel at home. If it were for me I'd use PC gamepass much more than Steam, but I have more games on Steam, and Steam can't loose to anything, it's really good at what it does. (my only woes with it can be fixed, except one, but I talked about those in the Steam thread)

 

[Cyan]

hope that the forward compatibility also means that whether you have a console or a hybrid handheld, they can make ALL Windows games -even modern free software, games and stuff you can get everywhere- work on some kind of Windows VM or whatever, even having the option to have performance boosting of classic/legacy games 'cos this would increase the value of any hardware like a million orders of magnitude.

You can have a console, or a hybrid that works as expected with new performance certified games, but sometimes people just want to play older games, emulators and so on, and having that option right of the bat would be an excellent addition.

 

[Cyan]

Microsoft shakes up Xbox marketing as key exec departs for Roblox

Jerret West is leaving Xbox at the end of the month.

www.theverge.com

This is the second important departure this year:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/5/24122208/microsoft-xbox-kareem-choudhry-leaving-xbox-cloud-gaming

Xbox executive Kareem Choudhry is leaving Microsoft after more than 26 years at the company. Windows Central reports that Choudhry’s last day is today, and his departure has triggered a shake-up of some teams inside Xbox. Choudhry’s departure comes just six months after a big shake-up of Xbox leadership and amid continued changes to Microsoft’s gaming strategy.

Choudhry had been focusing on Microsoft’s AI plans for Xbox in recent months, which include a new Xbox AI chatbot that The Verge exclusively revealed earlier this week. Choudhry was also key to Xbox’s backward compatibility support and helped bring Xbox Cloud Gaming to life as xCloud in 2019.

Microsoft is now moving Choudhry’s former team, Xbox Emerging Tech, to the Xbox hardware side that’s headed by Roanne Sones. A new Xbox Experiences and Platforms team has been created, with Ashley McKissick and Kevin Gammill leading what’s reportedly a push to improve the Xbox experience across Windows and Xbox consoles.

Microsoft is also working on next-gen Xbox hardware, with gaming chief Phil Spencer continuing to tease the potential for an Xbox handheld in a recent interview with Polygon. Spencer also hinted that Xbox could eventually get PC stores like Epic Games Store and Itch.io, signaling that Microsoft is still considering further big changes to its overall Xbox strategy.

Additionally, Major Nelson has joined Unity.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1802723522986536967

 

[rntongo]

Microsoft shakes up Xbox marketing as key exec departs for Roblox

Jerret West is leaving Xbox at the end of the month.

www.theverge.com

This is the second important departure this year:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/5/24122208/microsoft-xbox-kareem-choudhry-leaving-xbox-cloud-gaming






Additionally, Major Nelson has joined Unity.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1802723522986536967

Hopefully for the better.

 

[pharma]

Xbox Expected to Go Full Digital Next-Gen, Industry Analyst Says; PlayStation and Nintendo to Follow Suit Later On

Xbox is expected to abandon physical media and go full digital next-gen. At least, that's what industry analyst Mat Piscatella believes.

wccftech.com

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Xbox Expected to Go Full Digital Next-Gen, Industry Analyst Says; PlayStation and Nintendo to Follow Suit Later On

Xbox is expected to abandon physical media and go full digital next-gen. At least, that's what industry analyst Mat Piscatella believes.

wccftech.com

While it hardly seems like a bold prediction, with Xbox execs flat stating they're working on a handheld and mentioning stuff like ROG Ally be name, I'd question it. I looked up how many physical copies Tears of the Kindgom sold, first google result is that almost half of sales in Japan were physical.

That's a lot of potential money to waste just because you feel like it. Then again it's "Xbox One will require an internet connection" Microsoft, so they may well just feel like it.

 

[rntongo]

Btw for any of the people that think Consoles are just PC parts put together.

"Cerny says building a console takes about four years"

So dont expect MS releasing multiple configs just like that of hw over the next 4 years unless they want to close shop.

 

[eastmen]

Btw for any of the people that think Consoles are just PC parts put together.

"Cerny says building a console takes about four years"

So dont expect MS releasing multiple configs just like that of hw over the next 4 years unless they want to close shop.

Xbox series launched in 2020. It is now 2024. Some of us like myself are talking about a 2025/26 console which is over the time frame Cerny says. Also just because It takes cerny 4 years to design a console doesn't mean it will take other companies the same amount of time to do so.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Xbox series launched in 2020. It is now 2024. Some of us like myself are talking about a 2025/26 console which is over the time frame Cerny says. Also just because It takes cerny 4 years to design a console doesn't mean it will take other companies the same amount of time to do so.

Xbox still seems to have their nigh indefinite budget, so they can just shoot a money cannon at getting a console out in two and a half years instead of 4.

 

[rntongo]

Xbox series launched in 2020. It is now 2024. Some of us like myself are talking about a 2025/26 console which is over the time frame Cerny says. Also just because It takes cerny 4 years to design a console doesn't mean it will take other companies the same amount of time to do so.

You're missing key context let me explain. Yes 2026 would be 6 years away from 2020 but the question is when did they start actually working on the new console? From the FTC docs that leaked in 2023 they were expecting to launch in 2028 so they wouldnt have started actual work on a new gen console by 2022. In 2022 they were expected to release closer to 2028 and only had conceptual stuff. In addition there's a huge possibility the next Xbox will be using ARM for the CPU, this needs time to work out if they are still serious about their hw.

Otherwise if they indeed release in 2026 it would a reactionary console developed between 2023-2026 not in sync with key industry developments in software and hw. And wouldn't be anywhere as good as something Sony will release in 2027/8 as that is built in line with current Software Engineering developments. They develop the hw based off research and data from actual software developers and develop the hw backwards from that. As you can read from this Cerny interview. This is what MS did with the OG Xbox and the Xbox 360, and to some extent with the Series X(Not with the Xbox One and Series S) .

Also just because It takes cerny 4 years to design a console doesn't mean it will take other companies the same amount of time to do so.

This is the industry standard because of developments in Software Engineering during the lifecycle of the gen amongst others such as hw advancements. You cant simply buy products off the shelf and then think you've built a console. Cerny explains this quite well actually. You'd be building a PC.

 

[eastmen]

You're missing key context let me explain. Yes 2026 would be 6 years away from 2020 but the question is when did they start actually working on the new console? From the FTC docs that leaked in 2023 they were expecting to launch in 2028 so they wouldnt have started actual work on a new gen console by 2022. In 2022 they were expected to release closer to 2028 and only had conceptual stuff. In addition there's a huge possibility the next Xbox will be using ARM for the CPU, this needs time to work out if they are still serious about their hw.

I am not really missing anything of any context. We don't know when MS started work on a new console. They typically already start working on new consoles after the last one launched. Last generation Ms launched a console in 2013 and worked on and prepared a refresh for 2017. So they are already working on new hardware.

You are also using what another competitor states as a time line for a different company. We have no idea how sony internally operates vs MS.

Otherwise if they indeed release in 2026 it would a reactionary console developed between 2023-2026 not in sync with key industry developments in software and hw. And wouldn't be anywhere as good as something Sony will release in 2027/8 as that is built in line with current Software Engineering developments. They develop the hw based off research and data from actual software developers and develop the hw backwards from that. As you can read from this Cerny interview. This is what MS did with the OG Xbox and the Xbox 360, and to some extent with the Series X(Not with the Xbox One and Series S) .

This is one of the silliest takes I have ever seen

MS launched the Xbox in 2001. They released the xbox 360 in 2005. They were able to put out an advance machine that was better than what sony could put out in 2006 a full year later. It was actually more in line with what sony launched.

But now suddenly MS who with their partnership in openai and their control of Dx wouldn't be able to produce a console that would be in line with what the industry is developing? A 2027/8 sony console would be better than a 2025/6 MS console. But should Sony wait because a 2029/2030 console from Ms would be more in line with the industry and sony wouldn't be anywhere near as good as that ?

This is the industry standard because of developments in Software Engineering during the lifecycle of the gen amongst others such as hw advancements. You cant simply buy products off the shelf and then think you've built a console. Cerny explains this quite well actually. You'd be building a PC.

Yet Ms launched xbox in 01 and xbox 360 in 05.

Cerny says a lot of things and ended up with a PC. It uses an AMD APU + GDDR ram + NVME which is exactly like a pc. The PS5 Pro is again going to be an AMD APU + GDDR+NVME . once again a pc. The most exotic thing about the ps5 is the karken compression blocks which low and behold MS also has compresion blocks.

It seems to me like MS is very well poised to be disruptive with a new product. A 2025/6 machine and then a 2029/30 machine.

 

[cheapchips]

Xbox still seems to have their nigh indefinite budget, so they can just shoot a money cannon at getting a console out in two and a half years instead of 4.

The massive spend on ABK was buying $69bn of 'value'. So long as it's earning more than money in the bank then job done. I'm not sure there's an equivalent justification for raiding the bank to accelerate the next console's development. Does more money even allow you to go faster anyway?

 

[Johnny Awesome]

All of those surveys are meaningless. A survey of music listeners in 1998 said that 90% of them bought CDs and yet here were are. My nephews don't even know what a CD is.

I don't know anyone who buys physical, Gamestop is going under, and Sony and MS are going all digital soon. That's the reality. Welcome to 2024.

Also, Cerny saying a console takes Sony 4 years to develop is meaningless as well.

1) MS has had 4 years.
2) MS could do it faster since they actually developed two machines in the time Sony took to develop 1 last time.

I'd love for MS to be on a 5 year cycle, but looks like I'm going to have to live with 6.

 

[rntongo]

Also, Cerny saying a console takes Sony 4 years to develop is meaningless as well.

Cerny said consoles take around 4 years to make, not that it takes Sony 4 years to make, he was speaking generally for the industry. He's an authoritative figure when it comes to gaming hardware. For example Switch 2 has been delayed numerous times for a myriad of reasons related to prospective technology advancements, delays in expected software API developments, etc.

Doesnt mean they couldnt slap together some hw components from different manufacturers, but they have to consider the machine their making is going to last longer software development cycles, something I have echoed here several times. It's not like the Xbox 360 and prior generation where games could be built in 2-3 years easy. His whole point is the process of making a console is much more involving than people( especially us on forums may think it is). He unequivocally states this in the interview.

 

[eastmen]

Cerny said consoles take around 4 years to make, not that it takes Sony 4 years to make, he was speaking generally for the industry. He's an authoritative figure when it comes to gaming hardware. For example Switch 2 has been delayed numerous times for a myriad of reasons related to prospective technology advancements, delays in expected software API developments, etc.

Doesnt mean they couldnt slap together some hw components from different manufacturers, but they have to consider the machine their making is going to last longer software development cycles, something I have echoed here several times. It's not like the Xbox 360 and prior generation where games could be built in 2-3 years easy. His whole point is the process of making a console is much more involving than people( especially us on forums may think it is). He unequivocally states this in the interview.

Again with this ? The 360 was forward thinking bringing many innovations with it and it was released within 4 years of the xbox (2001-2005)


I don't even get your games comment. there are games out on these consoles that run very poorly at sub 1080p resolutions. According to Digital foundry the last FF on ps5 in performance mode hit 900p with 37fps. So there are already games that will take advantage of any new hardware they have access too. The games in development now on the the series and ps5 will only run better on the newer hardware. The best part is these games are largely in development for the PC at the same time. Games like Gears of war Emergence day or Fable are all made for day one on the pc in which cpu's and graphics cards more powerful than anything in the xbox series s/x ps5 and even the ps5 pro exist today. All those games will on day one take advantage of all that new hardware day one. Fable on day one will work on 50x0 geforce cards and whatever amd new cards are at the time of release.

You are focusing in on a single person too much. Single people make mistakes all the time.

 

[rntongo]

Again with this ? The 360 was forward thinking bringing many innovations with it and it was released within 4 years of the xbox (2001-2005)


I don't even get your games comment. there are games out on these consoles that run very poorly at sub 1080p resolutions. According to Digital foundry the last FF on ps5 in performance mode hit 900p with 37fps. So there are already games that will take advantage of any new hardware they have access too. The games in development now on the the series and ps5 will only run better on the newer hardware. The best part is these games are largely in development for the PC at the same time. Games like Gears of war Emergence day or Fable are all made for day one on the pc in which cpu's and graphics cards more powerful than anything in the xbox series s/x ps5 and even the ps5 pro exist today. All those games will on day one take advantage of all that new hardware day one. Fable on day one will work on 50x0 geforce cards and whatever amd new cards are at the time of release.

You are focusing in on a single person too much. Single people make mistakes all the time.

If you go and read my previous messages you'll find nuances in my responses which respond to your replies. I have covered everything from how Xbox covertly managed to get some of the CPU tech from IBM which codeveloped the Cell processor with Sony, as such the 360 still had an impressive CPU despite not sinking in anywhere near as much in R&D costs. I have covered alot of nuances which were echoed by Cerny in his recent interview. I think we just disagree fundamentally on this. Which is actually okay. You think some of my takes are silly and I think yours lack context, nuance and are not entirely grounded in the realities of developing software & hw especially for consoles.

 

[eastmen]

If you go and read my previous messages you'll find nuances in my responses which respond to your replies. I have covered everything from how Xbox covertly managed to get some of the CPU tech from IBM which codeveloped the Cell processor with Sony, as such the 360 still had an impressive CPU despite not sinking in anywhere near as much in R&D costs. I have covered alot of nuances which were echoed by Cerny in his recent interview. I think we just disagree fundamentally on this. Which is actually okay. You think some of my takes are silly and I think yours lack context, nuance and are not entirely grounded in the realities of developing software & hw especially for consoles.

You haven't responded to my post at all from what I can see.

I see here that you are giving credit to sony for the IBM cpu inside of the xbox. MS with the gpu makers through DX laid the ground work for all the gpus that Sony has used since the playstation 3. Does this mean that sony has only been able to make consoles because they covertly managed to get deals with AMD to use designs that MS had input on?

MS having control of DX and 49% of OpenAI would of course allow them to know what is coming down the pipe from all graphics manufacturers for many years out. MS already knows the trends and future features of products coming up. Why would they no longer be able to produce and launch a console within 4 years of a previous console and why do you think they can't do it in 5 years or 6 years when they have done it before ? You haven't given any real reasons why MS can't do that.

You also say that the ps5 isn't just a pc. However it is a pc. It's an AMD APU +GDDR + NVME . Why would you think it would take 4 years + for a company to develop a console based on hardware designed by another company and on their road map? The ps5 doesn't have a true custom CPU from AMD. It wasn't ground up made for the ps5. It's just a modded zen2 processor. it's the same with the gpu portion. The major software running on the ps5 is modified PS4 games. Spider-man MM , Spider-man 2 , Horizon 2 , God of war 2 and so on and so forth are all games based on ps4 games with ray tracing added to the engine. The ps5 (and series)) doesn't even do ray tracing well. There was other hardware at the time much better at it and the difference has only grown in these last 4 years. Why would Sony's ps5 strategy which was successful (ie taking ps4 games and added effects and resolution) not be successful for MS? Why wouldn't playing all the current generation games and all the upcoming games at higher resolutions + better textures + more and better ray tracing not be an effective strategy ? do you think gamers in 2025 or 2026 who want to play GTA6 or a new COD or any number of games coming from third parties and MS itself not want to play those games at the highest resolutions, highest texture quality , highest ray tracing , fastest loading , and whatever else is possible on 2025/6 hardware vs 2020 hardware?