Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2024]

[Remij]

Analysis of Hellblade 2. It's probably running between 1080p and 1440p, with reduced resolutions for transparencies and volumetrics.

The discourse/arguments around this game on various forums and socials is depressing. People arguing about the resolution and framerates... I see people constantly attacking this game for looking soft... only being able to hit 30fps.

I know it's not Digital Foundry's job to coddle and pander to these babies as they fight over each others preferred platforms and games... but sometimes I do wish that certain care would be taken to not unnecessarily exacerbate things. Like take for example the resolution. Oliver tested where he could and found that the game typically runs between around 1296p and 1440p.. BUT because he also stated that with the letter boxing, it's more like 964p to 1070p... just like that he just gave an army of haters ammo to throw at the other side.

I feel like in the future, with games which utilize letterboxing to hit their preferred aspect ratio/performance, Digital Foundry should just report the resolution they determine the image to be including the letterboxed portion and not even bother mentioning what resolution the game portion of the image is alone. Reason being is that if you take a 2560x1440 image and throw black bars on the top and bottom.. it doesn't change the resolution. The pixel density remains that of a 1440p image. So saying it's something lower wouldn't exactly be representative of the clarity of the game portion of the image that we actually see.

If someone were to ask me what resolution Hellblade 2 runs at as far as we know, I'd say 1296p to 1440p and not 964p-1070p.

 

[see colon]

If someone were to ask me what resolution Hellblade 2 runs at as far as we know, I'd say 1296p to 1440p and not 964p-1070p.

But that's not true. If it's letterboxed then those pixels are excluded then the resolution, especially if it's defined by a vertical number, would be lower. This game looks great, though, from everything we've seen of it. I said years ago that I think resolution is a poor single metric of image quality, and it's becoming more true every day.

 

[Remij]

But that's not true. If it's letterboxed then those pixels are excluded then the resolution, especially if it's defined by a vertical number, would be lower. This game looks great, though, from everything we've seen of it. I said years ago that I think resolution is a poor single metric of image quality, and it's becoming more true every day.

Sure it is. If he's pixel counting and finding 1296p and 1440p resolutions including the bars... then that determines the PPI of the overall image. Having the game not render the top and bottom doesn't change that. Subtracting the top and bottom portions doesn't change the PPI.. it just gives you the resolution of the aspect ratio you're seeing.

Edit: I get it.. yes the resolution of the game portion is lower but my point is.. that you're still seeing the image at the clarity of 1296p and 1440p. I understand that the amount of "rendered pixels" are lower... But the quality of the image you are seeing isn't being degraded.

So yes, that's why I said they shouldn't even bother saying the lower resolution.. The real metric to judge the image is pixel density. Of which, this game has equal to 1296p to 1440p.

 

[arandomguy]

But is that fully communicating everything useful in the context of the content?

Using an extreme example if a game were 3840x2160 but it had 2x1079 pixel letterboxes, so the actual view sans black bars were 3840x2, would it make sense given the context of the content to solely mention that it was a 2160p game without any other addendums?

 

[Karamazov]

we had the exact same debate last gen with the Order 1886, because it was a platform exclusive, some people not liking that particular platform where all over "letter boxed not true 1080p" "corridor shooter" "not that impressive at all"
etc...
We just have to enjoy what we want and try to focus on real informative comments, while filtering the "noise" from people not interested in talking seriously about those games.

Personally i've never been bothered by resolution or letterboxing (almost every movie we watch on TV are letterboxed), as long as it's not a blurry mess of course, and that performance is fine.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don’t see why accurately reporting resolution is suddenly a problem. And yes, letterboxing is a different output resolution.

Sure forum warriors might use it as a talking point but that’s no different than anything else.

And the resolution is relevant when talking about performance. I do run some games at 21:9 on a 16:9 display to increase frame rate.

The Order was not 1080p because it wasn’t 1920x1080. It was 1920x800. That’s just factual information.

 

[Davros]

plus you cant count pixel density without knowing the monitor size

 

[Globalisateur]

we had the exact same debate last gen with the Order 1886, because it was a platform exclusive, some people not liking that particular platform where all over "letter boxed not true 1080p" "corridor shooter" "not that impressive at all"
etc...
We just have to enjoy what we want and try to focus on real informative comments, while filtering the "noise" from people not interested in talking seriously about those games.

Personally i've never been bothered by resolution or letterboxing (almost every movie we watch on TV are letterboxed), as long as it's not a blurry mess of course, and that performance is fine.

Difference is The order 1886 was running at locked 30fps on a platform where many games didn't even run at that. Here the game runs at 30fps on a platform where the vast majority of games run at 60fps. Odd.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Edit: I get it.. yes the resolution of the game portion is lower but my point is.. that you're still seeing the image at the clarity of 1296p and 1440p. I understand that the amount of "rendered pixels" are lower... But the quality of the image you are seeing isn't being degraded.

You are right. However, DF is more focussed at how many pixels are being drawn, the workload achieved bu the hardware. The output has the quality of 1300p, but the workload of 1000p.

So yes, that's why I said they shouldn't even bother saying the lower resolution.. The real metric to judge the image is pixel density. Of which, this game has equal to 1296p to 1440p.

That's not DF's job. The world is full of morons. We shouldn't have to dumb down our little corner of it to prevent them being moronic with what they fail to understand. It's better to speak truthfully and educate people so that they aren't morons any more.

The issue isn't the number being reported, but people failing to understand what it means. They can't wrap their brains around the difference between image clarity and rendering workload; they can only hit each other over the head with numbers. In the context of this thread, everyone knows exactly what Oliver meant and that's what we want to here in this thread. What happens outside is immaterial to our technical discussions.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Difference is The order 1886 was running at locked 30fps on a platform where most games didn't even run at that. Here the game runs at 30fps on a platform where the vast majority of games run at 60fps. Odd.

That's irrelevant to the point about resolution and is a platform comparison that adds nothing to the technical discussion of the game. It's a different game on a different platform on a different generation. Useful comparisons will be similar games on the same platform.

 

[snc]

We are in 4th year of xsx/ps5, consoles users have to expect there will be more and more 30fps titles running closer to 1080p (btw thats why midgen refresh is good decision)

 

[Globalisateur]

We are in 4th year of xsx/ps5, consoles users have to expect there will be more and more 30fps titles running closer to 1080p (btw thats why midgen refresh is good decision)

All Sony exlusive games (or 2nd party) have a 60fps mode. I think the only notable third party game being 30fps only is Gotham Knights (which bombed). The only 30fps only game at launch, that Ubisoft game, also bombed (and received a 60fps patch later). The vast majority of customers won't expect and won't be happy with 30fps only games. 60fps is the defacto gaming standard on console (albeit with reduced IQ) and is here to stay. More and more games have 60fps / 120fps modes now, people are buying those 120fps TVs for a good reason.

30fps only gaming has no future and those games should not be green lighted anymore. it's a recipe for failure.

 

[snc]

All Sony exlusive games (or 2nd party) have a 60fps mode. I think the only notable third party game being 30fps only is Gotham Knights (which bombed). The only 30fps only game at launch, that Ubisoft game, also bombed (and received a 60fps patched later). The vast majority of customers won't expect and won't be happy with 30fps only games. 60fps is the defacto gaming standard on console (albeit with reduced IQ) and is here to stay. More and more games have 60fps / 120fps modes now, people are buying those 120fps TVs for a good reason.

30fps only gaming has no future and those games should not be green lighted anymore. it's a recipe for failure.

Yes but GOW, gt7, Miles Morales (even Spiderman2) looks like crossgen and ff7 rebirth in 1080p is blurry as hell. Titles that realy impress in 60 are imo Forbiden West, Rachet and Demon Souls. What Sony do realy well is often there is 40fps mode in their titles.

 

[Karamazov]

Majority of people where fine with 30fps last gens, why would that change now ?

 

[MrSpiggott]

Majority of people where fine with 30fps last gens, why would that change now ?

It depends on whether 60fps has become the new normal for PS5 owners.

I was fine growing up playing some Spectrum games at 10fps, that was quite normal and playable. Couldn't do it now though.

 

[Nesh]

The discourse/arguments around this game on various forums and socials is depressing. People arguing about the resolution and framerates... I see people constantly attacking this game for looking soft... only being able to hit 30fps.

I know it's not Digital Foundry's job to coddle and pander to these babies as they fight over each others preferred platforms and games... but sometimes I do wish that certain care would be taken to not unnecessarily exacerbate things. Like take for example the resolution. Oliver tested where he could and found that the game typically runs between around 1296p and 1440p.. BUT because he also stated that with the letter boxing, it's more like 964p to 1070p... just like that he just gave an army of haters ammo to throw at the other side.

I feel like in the future, with games which utilize letterboxing to hit their preferred aspect ratio/performance, Digital Foundry should just report the resolution they determine the image to be including the letterboxed portion and not even bother mentioning what resolution the game portion of the image is alone. Reason being is that if you take a 2560x1440 image and throw black bars on the top and bottom.. it doesn't change the resolution. The pixel density remains that of a 1440p image. So saying it's something lower wouldn't exactly be representative of the clarity of the game portion of the image that we actually see.

If someone were to ask me what resolution Hellblade 2 runs at as far as we know, I'd say 1296p to 1440p and not 964p-1070p.

I think when it comes to technical analysis it is pretty valid, as black boarders aren't simply an overlay on top of the actual rendered resolution. It actually saves performance as it reduces the required render to fill the screen and the devs can use this for their and our benefit. The same was also valid for The Order 1886. Which btw holds exceptionally well even by today's standards

If fanboys want to use it for their console wars, DF shouldn't be concerned and dilute their analysis in accordance to internet warriors.

 

[function]

30 fps might be an outlier on current consoles, but then again nothing looks as cinematic or oozes such rendering quality. Hellblade 2 is a remarkable looking game, there's nothing else on console like it.

That takes a lot of maths and a decent base resolution to minimise upscaling artifacts. It'll be interesting to see if H2 is using Unreal 5's upscaler, which is supposedly higher quality than FSR2 but more expensive.

Series S will be a good test of just what you can squeeze out of the little machine when the developer really gives a damn (i.e. isn't Capcom), and might give us a rough idea* of what a 60 fps Series X version might have looked like if it had been included.

*Obviously Series S has less memory as well as being less powerful.

 

[iroboto]

I know it's not Digital Foundry's job to coddle and pander to these babies as they fight over each others preferred platforms and games..

It’s better that they report the truth, as at the very least it proves their journalistic intent.

The haters are going to move goal posts regardless. There’s nothing anyone including DF can do about that.

MS just needs to keep trucking on.

 

[Wardious]

The comparison with The Order 1886 is interesting because it reminds us of what was possible on ps4.
I prefer The Order 1886's art direction, and the image wasn't altered by overuse of post-processing effects.

 

[Dictator]

and the image wasn't altered by overuse of post-processing effects.

I am not sure if that is exactly a fair appraisal. The order is rather famous for its extensive use of post-processing. Including: Chromatic Abberation, barrel distortion, motion blur, depth of field, bloom and light flares. It has a constant depth of field on, even in gameplay. It was definitely a core part of the game's aesthetic.