For BG3 they never released a dx12 variant. I think even to this day, I don’t recall seeing the option of running anything other than vulkan or dx11
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
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I understand but was does steam have to do with it ?
steam is capable of playing dx 12 games even the steam deck can play dx 12 games. So its not because the game was vulkan for stadia and dx11 for steam. It's because the devs didn't bother using a modern dx api.
Yes I agree it likely played out something like that.
I’m just stating how they released the title, without dx12. BG3 was originally announced as a Stadia exclusive which is why the game shipped with Vulcan. The rush to put out the title had them settle to dx11 for better compatibility. Hoping vulkan would be sufficient. Not that steam can’t do dx12.
Meaning consoles were never intended to release alongside PC. And it’s pretty clear that the build for Series consoles was furthest behind with Sony getting marketing rights after Stadia fell through.
Start at 4:07 if the video doesn't do it automatically.
Dont always agree with Skill Up and feel he tends to be a little bit overly cynical at times, but I think he's perfectly spot on with basically all of this, and he almost rips basically every single talking point I've made about this in recent weeks, but in a more 'full picture' response that highlights the issues well.
Nah. Skill up keeps talking about Phil's "agency" and how he's ignoring the fact that he's the publisher and skirting his responsibility for layoffs after the ABK purchase, but Phil is spelling out exactly the reasons why these things are happening. The industry is not growing, so cutbacks have to be made if revenue isn't going to increase. Why isn't Xbox going to bet all of it's money on creativity? Microsoft has all this money! It's literally in the quote. "I don't have any luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business inside of Microsoft." That is why. It's like he's reading the words that say "We can't afford this if we want to be profitable" and then saying "But Microsoft has all this money". It's like that kid who can't understand why their parent doesn't want to blow $100 on some trash toy because they saw their paycheck once and it was way more than $100.
Very well put tbh. Phil has never been held accountable for failing on the core thing; delivering great games. But thats hard to do when the guy himself said building great games isnt going to help Xbox sales and then used a red herring argument about console sales. It doesnt matter if the games are on a console or being processed remotely on a cloud gaming platform, the question is "does your platform have great games?" Phil hasnt answered this except saying they are coming, and on other occasions he has simply resorted to buying studios without delivering on the great games for the past 5 years. Redfall, Starfield Halo Infinite are not generation defining titles nor anything that wasnt possible in the prior generation. They have all been duds if we're being very honest.
There's some hope with Hellblade 2 but the incessant delays have sapped out a lot of enthusiasm about the title for me at least, but I still have hope in it at least. There's Fable and Gears 6 as well in the pipeline but he needs to be held accountable for his failures and stop blaming them on how his competitors run their businesses.Some of us can see through his plans to target Sony and Nintendo's business model after having failed to deliver great games. Having 4 years into a gaming generation without a clear strategy on the question of games is a huge red flag. Blaming it on Sony or Nintendo's "closed" system is just as bad as saying great games dont shift Xbox sales. Phil seems to think we bought into the Xbox brand to marvel at what a platform it is and how strategic he is about eventually moving to an "open system". Its quite bizarre really and I am 100% with Skill Up on this.
I bought the Series X because it had great hw, a nice game service and my core desire; prospect of playing titles that deliver a next gen leap aka great games. Phil has failed on the core desire and I thank Skill Up for speaking out. PS5 pro is going to take the power narrative away as well just as games such as GTA 6, Crysis 4, the new James Bond title are coming out. I was also surprised when pro Xbox/PC reporters tried to paint a narrative that there wouldnt be a PS5 pro yet Sony clearly hinted at it from the get go. These same reporters have time and again praised Phil Spencer as he was failed his way into ending the Xbox brand.
cheapchips
Veteran
Great games matter to us as customers. They don't matter to Spencer's boss so long as Microsoft Gaming continues to grow. It's continued to grow. Spencer keeps his job as long as revenue keeps growing.
Why is that? I'm assuming there's enough work to keep a few hundred employees busy. How can MS's existing admin workforce absorb that workload?
There can only be so much that can be duplicated, and I struggle to see how that can be a significant amount. I'd love to see it broken down.
There can only be so much that can be duplicated, and I struggle to see how that can be a significant amount. I'd love to see it broken down.
Not just MS, but any company taking on a large acquisition. Even fairly small ones...Sony acquiring a dev, say, how many people can be let go because they are redundant as their workload comes under the remit of someone at the parent company?
Focussing on this specific situation, if MS's workload isn't maxed out, why are they employing more people than they need? I'd have thought they'd have optimised and downsized. Why has their PR department got people with enough hours on their hands doing nothing that they can swallow the large PR department of ABK? What admin was happening at ABK that the employees' work can be accommodated by MS's existing admin staff? If hardly any, why were they employed at ABK? If they were kept busy, how can MS's admin take on the work?
It strikes me as having two CPUs, and then disabling one and moving the work to the other. Or let's say a GPU with 60 CUs and then disabling 10 and moving their work to the remaining 50 CUs. If there's room to do the work, it wasn't being used efficiently in the first place. If ABK has 1000 man hours a week that's being moved over to MS's existing staff, why has MS got 1000 man hours free time ot fit them in?
I appreciate some will be efficiencies of not needing to duplicate overheads, but where the generalisations are cited, I'm not comfortable accepting them without a clearer picture of how it works out.
Focussing on this specific situation, if MS's workload isn't maxed out, why are they employing more people than they need? I'd have thought they'd have optimised and downsized. Why has their PR department got people with enough hours on their hands doing nothing that they can swallow the large PR department of ABK? What admin was happening at ABK that the employees' work can be accommodated by MS's existing admin staff? If hardly any, why were they employed at ABK? If they were kept busy, how can MS's admin take on the work?
It strikes me as having two CPUs, and then disabling one and moving the work to the other. Or let's say a GPU with 60 CUs and then disabling 10 and moving their work to the remaining 50 CUs. If there's room to do the work, it wasn't being used efficiently in the first place. If ABK has 1000 man hours a week that's being moved over to MS's existing staff, why has MS got 1000 man hours free time ot fit them in?
I appreciate some will be efficiencies of not needing to duplicate overheads, but where the generalisations are cited, I'm not comfortable accepting them without a clearer picture of how it works out.
I agree and to be more accurate, Net Income but the two are linked. Eventually not delivering great games will bring down your net income. The thing saving Xbox at the moment(and possibly in the future) are the acquisitions. I initially was in support of the Activision acquisition but now that I see where Phil is driving things, I think he's going to just nuke the whole Sony Nintendo model while making Xbox some sort of a third party developer or just kill off the Xbox brand itself.
While I agree with you as a whole, that this is what they need to succeed in, there is a vocal crowd in that the gaming community makes it an uphill battle for xbox. The idea of what a great game is, tends to be constantly shifting goal post for them. People tend to fall in the trap of following this vocal crowd.
Following along this title in particular:
Right before HB2 previews came out it was all about HB2 coming to PS5. You can google this and find this everywhere.
Since the previews dropped the new narrative is:
omg it’s only 30 fps, where is the performance mode. This is bad. Xbox is full of lies.
✂️ wow these guys
15 seconds · Clipped by Rob Wing Chan · Original video "Is Hellblade 2's 30 FPS Lock On Xbox A DEALBREAKER?" by GamingBolt
youtube.com
Players want games longer than 8 hours. You can google this recent controversy over the title.
Even port begging that this game should be coming to platforms outside of xbox by a gaming site during a preview
✂️ wow
17 seconds · Clipped by Rob Wing Chan · Original video "Why Hellblade 2 Will Be One of the BIGGEST GAMES OF THE YEAR" by GamingBolt
youtube.com
Xbox will need to have years of consistent hits to rectify this issue. And that doesn't happen over night. There is no formula for what makes a game a 'great' game. Actually being able to catch lightning in a bottle is not easy. Most of what is defined as being 'great games' is really the majority community defining it within the confines of what they've played.
BG3 is a great game, I would define it as the most generationally defining game for the past 2 generations. There ice nothing like it. And the number of accolades that continue to pour in for it is incredible. And yet, Barely cracked top 90 most played of 2023 for PS users. https://www.truetrophies.com/news/top-ps5-games-2023
But this continues to have a massive player base on steam for a single player game.
Steam Charts - Tracking What's Played
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.
So what is a great game?
According to tech radar these are the top games to play on ps5 today (4 days ago)
https://www.techradar.com/best/best-ps5-games where is my Baldur's Gate? But they are silly, so let's look at a real list:
Best PS5 games to play right now
Take full advantage of your new console with these best PS5 games
It's easy to skew what the best games are. When you want to pander or serve a crowd and it becomes a positive reinforcement loop.
I don't disagree that xbox hasn't missed the mark many times, but their titles are never as bad as people make them out to be. But when Sony titles miss the mark, well, nobody writes about it.
Hyperbolic nonsense will be removed.
Please refer to the community posting guidelines for signal to noise ratio posting.
If you are writing just to spread word of a chip on your shoulder against a company, don’t bother. If you actually have discussion worthy items with reasonable takes please continue.
Please refer to the community posting guidelines for signal to noise ratio posting.
If you are writing just to spread word of a chip on your shoulder against a company, don’t bother. If you actually have discussion worthy items with reasonable takes please continue.
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The only way to shut up negative press is to deliver great games and deliver consistently. I have some hope that HellBlade 2 may be the start because it honestly looks impressive but you cant blame others/negative press for Phil Spencer being factually bad at delivering great games. HellBlade 2 was supposed to initially come out around 2021, its 2024 and there has never been a single system(I mean the ecosystem not console) seller for the Xbox. You cant expect positive news when Phil creates negative sentiment around the brand. He needs be held accountable. And thats the issue, he lacks accountability and shifts blame to others. Today its Sony's business model is outdated(yet its kicking his super duper futuristic model around), tomorrow its "great games wont shift sales", the next day its another excuse.
Phil has had 10 years at the helm of Xbox and over 30 years at MSFT, you're not helping by calling it overnight.
The idea of a great game is to a considerable extent subjective. To the majority, a certain game could be great yet to a minority that same game is not and vice versa(vice versa is what leads to cult classics). The issue with Xbox is it lacks universally agreed upon great games. No one can come out and say its not generally agreed upon that Playstation's God of War is a great game even if that person doesnt subjectively like it. The same cant be said about Starfield, Halo Infinite and Redfall. Those games were total duds even though some people liked them, no one within Xbox has the guts to say it and its why there is a negative narrative around Xbox which can be excessive at times. Its this lack of honesty and accountability thats eating up the brand. Even when some of its games get subjectively decent good critic ratings(Halo Infinite) there is a large number of people both on the Xbox brand and from competitors who provide factual compelling reasons for why these games are actually not great but in some cases even terrible. Look at the loading times in Starfield for example.BG3 is a great game, I would define it as the most generationally defining game for the past 2 generations. There ice nothing like it. And the number of accolades that continue to pour in for it is incredible. And yet, Barely cracked top 90 most played of 2023 for PS users. https://www.truetrophies.com/news/top-ps5-games-2023
But this continues to have a massive player base on steam for a single player game.
Steam Charts - Tracking What's Played
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.steamcharts.com
So what is a great game?
According to tech radar these are the top games to play on ps5 today (4 days ago)
https://www.techradar.com/best/best-ps5-games where is my Baldur's Gate? But they are silly, so let's look at a real list:
Baldur's Gate at position 4. But positions 1 through 3 are all Sony exclusives. Right. I've played them. They are no where nothing like Baldur's Gate.Best PS5 games to play right now
Take full advantage of your new console with these best PS5 gameswww.gamesradar.com
Its easy to skew what the best games are if your platform has been delivering great games. Its called Good Will and Xbox has squandered the good will it created during the Xbox 360 days. Even BG3 which you like so much was delayed on Xbox because Phil in his incredible foresight decided launching two pieces of hw at the same time with different RAM amounts but with strict console requirements.
Playstation still faces criticisms but they have some good will because they have delivered more great titles that "create" sales. Both Xbox and Playstation have positive reinforcement loops. The only major difference is the one Phil Spencer has introduced is a positive reinforcement loop towards his failure in delivering great games. The guys is telling his consumers(including me who bought only the Series X) that great games dont matter and then shifting the blame to Playstation and Nintendo's model (which is working well for them).
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@iroboto I definitely agree with everything you're saying. But I'll just clarify for myself personally that I think some sites have a tendency to bias towards games which are either "exclusive" or have a leaning towards a specific platform when creating their "Best ____ games" lists. I'm not saying it makes perfect sense.. but just that there's some variation between sites where some will simply post a list of the games they believe are that best that are on that platform, and others which make lists of best games which make that specific console worthwhile.
The TechRadar list for PS5 skews towards PS5 exclusives.. but the Xbox list skews towards Xbox exclusives.
www.techradar.com
So I think certain lists can look very silly if you look at them a certain way, but not as silly when looked at another way. In many cases as you say they definitely ARE pandering and creating a positive reinforcement loop.. but sometimes it's more innocent than that.
The TechRadar list for PS5 skews towards PS5 exclusives.. but the Xbox list skews towards Xbox exclusives.
Best Xbox Series X games 2024: smash hits for Microsoft's console
The best Xbox Series X games make the most of Microsoft's most powerful console
So I think certain lists can look very silly if you look at them a certain way, but not as silly when looked at another way. In many cases as you say they definitely ARE pandering and creating a positive reinforcement loop.. but sometimes it's more innocent than that.
Under his tenure, he had to rebuild the entire brand up after Don Matrick closed out all their first party studios. Under Phil Spencer he's delivered FH2-5, Age of Empires 4, Gears 5, Flight Simulator, Hi-Fi Rush, Ori 1-2, Sea of Thieves, Grounded. These are universally acclaimed great games.
Hellblade 2 was never given a release date until recently. It has always been May of 2024 that I can see from my googlefu.
This is hyperbolic. Under his tenure games got backwards compatibility, enhanced BC, Xbox One X was well received, Series X was well received, Cross Platform multiplayer was pushed by him, Game Pass was under his tenure and now. Accessibility, co-pilot, pro level controllers, meeting home theatre audio and video standards. The current motion toward cloud and the purchasing of Bethesda and ABK and Minecraft are all under his tenure. These are moves that the CEO of Xbox should be focused on.
And he's done a lot listed above. Great games are under a purview of others, yes it all rolls up to him, but his goal is to strategically position xbox to succeed. He's done his job in that regard. Microsoft is having an issue with being too hands on or too hands off. But he cannot control how every studio makes their games, that is certainly not his job. There is a whole chain of leadership and labour that needs to figure this out and that takes time and experience that Sony has had years to build without any major shakeups.
These are contradictory statements. Are they total duds or are they great games. Both Starfield and Halo released to 80+ scores. Both still have a strong population of gamers playing them. I won't get into the hate cycle with Starfield, there is an avid group of haters out there for Bethesda RPGs.
It's an indication of bias. As many have said in the past, history is written by the victors. In this case, the dominant platform holder decides what are good games. I do agree that Xbox has not hit the mark. But the good will was squandered well before Phil took the helm.
That has nothing to do with great games. He made a choice to reduce the cost of next generation gaming for people who couldn't afford the higher price points.
agreed. It's a bit weird to look at a platform for only its exclusive titles as the most played list is most certainly not those titles. But even when looking at PS: BG3 has barely cracked top 90 most played there. Within Xbox it is top 50 at least. Within PC top 16.@iroboto I definitely agree with everything you're saying. But I'll just clarify for myself personally that I think some sites have a tendency to bias towards games which are either "exclusive" or have a leaning towards a specific platform when creating their "Best ____ games" lists. I'm not saying it makes perfect sense.. but just that there's some variation between sites where some will simply post a list of the games they believe are that best that are on that platform, and others which make lists of best games which make that specific console worthwhile.
The TechRadar list for PS5 skews towards PS5 exclusives.. but the Xbox list skews towards Xbox exclusives.
Best Xbox Series X games 2024: smash hits for Microsoft's console
The best Xbox Series X games make the most of Microsoft's most powerful console
So I think certain lists can look very silly if you look at them a certain way, but not as silly when looked at another way. In many cases as you say they definitely ARE pandering and creating a positive reinforcement loop.. but sometimes it's more innocent than that.
Different crowds like different things, I don't have an issue with that. But my point is simply that if the PS list of what is most played is considered great.. then anything not on that list is glossed over. Which brings us back to these particular cyclical arguments.
Why do you need multiples of something ?
For instance how much work does the average HR rep do inside of a company ? For one aside from being sexually assaulted at a previous company the only time I ever intereacted with a hr rep at other companies is during my on boarding and exit interviews. once a year they old a meeting going over insurance changes and stuff like that.
So how many HR reps are needed per x amount of employees? It's likely relatively few and the higher up the HR rep is the less needed there are to have multiple of them. It reduces cost.
Its the same with marketing. how many people do you need to market a game ?
Inappropriate insulting langauge directed towards all counter arguments from forum members.
Can you really not grasp how spending $60,000,000,000 on buying a major publisher, and then pretending their financials are in such dire straits that they HAVE to fire thousands of people - do not mix?
How are some of y'all so naive and so incessantly willing to carry water for these megacorps? Is it just pure contrarianism or something? I really dont get it.
I cant stress enough that the industry is not in some massive decline. There is simply an irresponsible amount of spending going on, all while these companies cannot come to terms with the return to normal after an unexpected and unsustainable growth period during Covid.
This forum is almost completely unique in this, as I also see people literally trying to justify how Nvidia has more than doubled prices per mm² since last gen and act like anybody who criticizes it is the crazy/entitled one who doesn't understand reality.
It's wild.
You also ignore the hugely important part where Microsoft/Xbox themselves are responsible for their own lack of growth, and hence Phil Spencer himself. They didn't need the entire market to grow massively, they simply have failed to compete well against Playstation in the last decade, and have suffered as a result. THAT is a big point Skill Up was making that I agree with completely. Phil is trying to deflect all responsibility from themselves after executing poorly for so long, all while still showing they have TENS of BILLIONS in the war chest that they COULD have been investing in themselves.
smh
EDIT: I also think it's worth remembering Phil Spencer was head of Xbox Studios even before he became head of Xbox as a whole. People always want to pin all the blame on Don Mattrick, but Phil was still very much there in a highly prominent role overseeing one of the biggest areas they were failing in.
EDIT2: This whole 'they only fired redundant positions' thing has already been debunked folks. We know full well they fired people from many studios and even let an entire studio go like Toys For Bob go.
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