You just explained how Nintendo manages to stay relevant whereas Sony going the PC route makes the Playstation brand irrelevant for younger generations. The PS was relevant for all demographics in all generations.
Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
I think you guys are vastly overestimating the impact PS games day 1 on PC will have to their console business.
Of course it WILL impact SOME people... a very small minority... of which will easily be dwarfed by the amount of NEW gamers they will bring in.
I bet the actual opposite will happen. Sony releases games day and date on PC alongside console.. and they will see increased sales from BOTH player-bases. Capitalizing on the marketing, and the hype cycle being fueled by two massive markets, will cause MORE people, who are console gamers, to buy the games on PS5.. due to far more people talking about it.
Helldivers 2 would not be the success it is on PS5... if it wasn't for the PC version releasing, and the fanbase getting behind it and literally hyping it to the moon. PC gamers 100% resulted in more PS5 gamers buying that game, than would have originally. Of that, I'm convinced.
I think the fears are misplaced. I think Sony will realize this in due course. PC is just another battleground and Sony has what it takes to dominate there as well.
Of course it WILL impact SOME people... a very small minority... of which will easily be dwarfed by the amount of NEW gamers they will bring in.
I bet the actual opposite will happen. Sony releases games day and date on PC alongside console.. and they will see increased sales from BOTH player-bases. Capitalizing on the marketing, and the hype cycle being fueled by two massive markets, will cause MORE people, who are console gamers, to buy the games on PS5.. due to far more people talking about it.
Helldivers 2 would not be the success it is on PS5... if it wasn't for the PC version releasing, and the fanbase getting behind it and literally hyping it to the moon. PC gamers 100% resulted in more PS5 gamers buying that game, than would have originally. Of that, I'm convinced.
I think the fears are misplaced. I think Sony will realize this in due course. PC is just another battleground and Sony has what it takes to dominate there as well.
During a time when technological barriers mattered, they continued to stay very relevant. Die shrinks were cheap and effective. Technology was very different between platforms and was too costly for developers to release on multiple platforms. All of that has changed. Engines are all multiplatform. Silicon is getting more expensive with less performance improvements per node.
The market is shrinking on console not because people don’t want it, it’s because consoles are no longer as affordable as it once was. We should have seen price drops by now and actual “slim” machines, but you don’t. So with expensive console comes games targeted to the demographics that can afford it. And that demographics wants to see very nice graphics. And that costs a lot more to produce than it did in the past.
And where they were once making games that appealed to a broad category of gamers back in the day and now they’ve stopped because the demographic for PS has skewed older, so first party titles are all designed for older.
Sony moving their stuff to PC doesn’t make them irrelevant, it’s them trying to grow their shrinking market.
Reynaldo
Regular
Day and date? Maybe, but not much. But that's not what I said.
I don't think the hardware sales are really profitable, at least not the consoles, so if a PC gamer is buying a PS5 just to play a few exclusives they probably aren't making much profit off of them anyway. The real money is in the people that buy all of their games on the PS5, because they get a store cut off every game, dlc and micro-transaction. I just think that bringing games to PC is probably a small issue in the grand scheme when looking at their margins, if it doesn't turn out to be beneficial.
That depends on what you consider "Playstation". Sony used to have a robust PC publishing and developing arm known as Sony Online Entertainment. They developed and published PC exclusives like Everquest. H1Z1, and Planetside while also publishing Champions of Norath, and developing Untold Legends and Cash Guns Chaos for Playstation consoles. Sony sold them in 2015, and they became Daybreak. But Sony still published Helldivers on PC at the endo of 2015 and Everybody's gone to the Rapture in 2016. There was a 4 year gap until Horizon Zero Dawn was released in 2020, and 2021 brought Predator and Days Gone. Sony hasn't really not published PC games except for the aforementioned 4 year gap, they just previously had console games and PC games. Now they make console games and port them to PC. But that really started in 2015 with Helldivers. Unless you want to look at their MMO releases that were son PC and Console like 2011's DC Universe Online. Then it started earlier.
Does that matter if you make more money than you spend making them? We know from the Insomniac leak that Rift Apart had an $81M budget for console but only $2.6M for the PC port. That's roughly 3% of the budget, right? If you are getting 10% of your revenue from 3% of your expenses I think that's probably OK.
Also, what's the console PC split for Helldivers?
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Then made a directors cut.
And then made a sequel, to be followed by another sequel.
And then made a sequel, to be followed by another sequel.
Pretty sure it's still a sequel.
Soon to be a sequel.
Pretty sure God of War is fairly old. You're crazy if you think more Uncharted games aren't coming, btw.
@Johnny Awesome Naughty Dog's next game sounds like it'll be a sci fi thing. They seem to let their studios move on from huge IPs that are very profitable, where pretty much all of the other big publishers are just trying to squeeze the last drop of blood. I haven't owned a Playstation since PS3, because I really did not like that console. I didn't even like Uncharted past the 2nd one. I don't have a dog in this fight, but from my perspective they did a really good job of refreshing their games at the tail end of PS3 and through PS4. We'll have to agree to disagree from here.
Your answer is actually supporting my argument. The Playstation always appealed to all demographics with it's games. The games that appeal to all audiences are still there on Playstation. Those games didn't stop being made.
Targeted demographics did not change at all.
You are confusing targeted demographics with the audience that is left when a brand/product is decaying. When a product dies, it is left mostly with old loyalists.
And that's a phenomenon, not of targeted audience. It's a phenomenon where people prefer other platforms to play on because the product offerings is no longer unique or enticing.
XBOX series S is exactly proof of that. Unlike what you claim about affordability, it is super affordable, and has games for all audiences. It is more powerful than the Switch, and has the same price But it barely manages to compete. Because unlike Switch, it offers nothing unique, nothing you can't play on PC.
So the argument that is because "consoles are no longer affordable and therefore Sony changed targeted demographics" is not as valid as you claim. It is an assumption.
The answer is "why pay extra for a new console when my existing laptop or PC has the same games". New gamers have more reason to stay with a PC which everybody has these days and complement with Switch rather than with PS or XBOX when all their games are accessible without having to buy one. Hence why PS and XBOX audience is gradually limiting itself to "older" gamers or "loyalists". The PS is still not there yet but it will end up there gradually just MS killed incentives to buy an XBOX. The targeted audience prefer other platforms instead of yours.
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If someone buys a PS5 because it has games they can't play somewhere else, they are also likely to buy more exclusives and their next multiplatform games there (as well as pay for online). So eliminating any reason to prefer a PS as a gaming platform, it guarantees even less profits. It is likely uncommon that someone buys a console just to play one game for all it's lifespan.
From Wikipeda:
Uncharted grossed $148.6 million in the United States and in Canada, and $258.5 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $407.1 million.
Outside of SpiderMan and future Marvel properties I'm not seeing that from PS5 (even Marvel is dying, Stage 4 is brutal). We've had the consoles since 2020, we are about 9 months from wrapping up year 4, and there are very few games on PS5. But there are no games there like Sing Star, not trivia games, no puzzle games, no strategy games, just a lot of Third Person Adventure, we just don't make games like we used to. Most of those have migrated to mobile. I mean, where is there animal crossing equivalent, where is their minecraft equivalent. etc
What are the demographics of PS5 players? - Gaming Pedia
What are the demographics of PS5 players? 1. What is the demographic segmentation of PS5? The demographic segmentation of PS5 players is diverse, with the major target market consisting of people between the age group of 16-44 years, including both casual and professional gamers. PS5 is...
www.ncesc.com
13. What is Sony’s target demographic?
Sony’s target demographic is broad and diverse, as the company produces a wide range of products and services. However, they primarily aim to attract tech-savvy individuals who are interested in gadgets and technology.14. Who is the PS5 marketed for?
The PS5 is marketed towards people between the ages of 16 and 44. This includes individuals who have an interest in gaming, regardless of their gaming experience or expertise.15. Who is the target audience for gaming consoles?
In 2020, the largest group of U.S. console gamers were millennials aged 25 to 34, accounting for 27% of the gaming audience. Teenagers aged 13 to 17 made up 11% of U.S. console gamers.****
I mean, that makes sense. The Sony brand is a premium brand. TVs, headphones, cameras, etc, are all definitely not for the lower end of things.
The issue with Xbox Series S was a great concept that failed for a variety of reasons, even though technically it makes up over 50% of xbox sales here. You have a target audience that wants the latest from technology, unlike Nintendo, and you only provide games that target the latest in technology, so providing hardware that is _not_ is the mismatch. Xbox is doing some sort of strategy to incorporate games that matter more to younger audiences who care less about graphics, but they are a far way from succeeding at it. They've got a storage issue with Series S, and all sorts of other problems, the reality is, it's not a very good cheap product., it should have launched at 1 TB at least because games are massive, and it's only got 500GBs. They lose the most money on Series S because MS wasn't willing to part losing anymore money on it. I have 3 daughters and a lot of them play on PC because the games on PC are designed for their age group. There are just simpler games on PC designed for children that don't have any sort of violence at all. That's not on Xbox and Playstation. There are so few games on both consoles today that don't have some form of violence, and among that do, nearly all of them have have blood. The type of titles that kids are looking for all exist on Nintendo however. I only need to look back to Rare Replay and know, for a fact, we don't make games like that on console anymore. Rare is the only the family division that they have. Sea of Thieves being the least possible violent pirate simulator that one could make, and I suspect that EverWild is going to follow suit.
I would say price hikes on both Xbox and PS5 after 3 years of release, slim models, and SoC revisions, is an indication that it is not getting cheaper. This isn't some assumption here, this is inference. I'm looking at data, I'm not just taking it for granted. This has never occurred in any console generation until as of late. This is the second generation in which Sony has increased prices in Canada after launch, they did it once in PS4, and then did it again with PS5. This is the first year that Xbox has hiked their console prices.
From a 50,000ft perspective of things, both MS and Sony want to be the leader in the next generation of gaming, whatever that may be. I think it's pretty clear that Sony wants it to be hardware based, because Sony is good at hardware, they sell a ridiculous variety of hardware around the world, and there are few companies that move as much electronics as them, you can buy there stuff anywhere in the world. And MS is a software and cloud company, it's natural for them to want the future of gaming to be cloud and hardware agnostic based, there are very few countries you couldn't buy Windows in. So Sony wants it to be VR, which is why they continue this path, and MS wants it to be cloud, which is why they continue investing down that path. The outcome of both of these is not yet determined, but it's clear that today neither path is particularly successful. And yet, as much I know people hate bean counters, you have to listen to bean counters. They are the ones who provide the information to ensure your company stays afloat. If you are going to making investments to change the direction of gaming into your favour, you cannot do it when you're just about dead, you have to do it while you're still financially able to. And so I see the movement of titles to PC as really a sign a that they are both buying time and trying to grab more revenue to fund this transformation until the industry changes into either VR or cloud.
You may look at it as a terrible thing, but sometimes you need to cannibalize their own market; Steve Jobs said "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will".
That time is coming for 'premium' game consoles. you may not believe it, but it's clear both Sony and MS see it. I think they are looking long term, and I think, most people against it are actually looking short term. They both have 1 generation left of whatever this is, unless there is some crazy technology released that will lower the price point. And they are both currently making the moves to secure whatever the actual 'next evolution' of gaming is.
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PS3 to PS4 was a long time ago, though. Sony's output this generation, that we are over 3 years into, has been poor at best. Their had a good year 1, but they haven't released a game that isn't from a licensed IP, remaster, or a sequel in over 2 years. That's 2/3 of the generation. They've stated that they have no big franchise games to be released before the end of the fiscal year (April 2025), and that could mean they are going to ship all new IPs that are creative and fresh, but none of them have been announced or dated yet, so we don't know. We usually know about big budget games a year before they release, with some exceptions. And I suppose every game Sony is to release this year will be exceptional, I'm doubtful that we are about to see a deluge of releases without any marketing this year. They just had a State of Play a month ago, and we saw what from Playstation first/second party releases? Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin are all I can remember. So there are new IP coming, though I'm not sure how big those titles will really be.
Almost everything you posted describes Sony and PS since Playstation 1, is in line with what I said and the 11% of 13-17 shows that the success of Nintendo, unlike what you said that it targets kids and that Sony changed its target to old/grown ups, is due to it's unique franchises that appeals to a wide audience which is also targeted by Sony.Outside of SpiderMan and future Marvel properties I'm not seeing that from PS5 (even Marvel is dying, Stage 4 is brutal). We've had the consoles since 2020, we are about 9 months from wrapping up year 4, and there are very few games on PS5. But there are no games there like Sing Star, not trivia games, no puzzle games, no strategy games, just a lot of Third Person Adventure, we just don't make games like we used to. Most of those have migrated to mobile. I mean, where is there animal crossing equivalent, where is their minecraft equivalent. etc
What are the demographics of PS5 players? - Gaming Pedia
What are the demographics of PS5 players? 1. What is the demographic segmentation of PS5? The demographic segmentation of PS5 players is diverse, with the major target market consisting of people between the age group of 16-44 years, including both casual and professional gamers. PS5 is...13. What is Sony’s target demographic?
Sony’s target demographic is broad and diverse, as the company produces a wide range of products and services. However, they primarily aim to attract tech-savvy individuals who are interested in gadgets and technology.
14. Who is the PS5 marketed for?
The PS5 is marketed towards people between the ages of 16 and 44. This includes individuals who have an interest in gaming, regardless of their gaming experience or expertise.
15. Who is the target audience for gaming consoles?
In 2020, the largest group of U.S. console gamers were millennials aged 25 to 34, accounting for 27% of the gaming audience. Teenagers aged 13 to 17 made up 11% of U.S. console gamers.
****
I mean, that makes sense. The Sony brand is a premium brand. TVs, headphones, cameras, etc, are all definitely not for the lower end of things.
The issue with Xbox Series S was a great concept that failed for a variety of reasons, even though technically it makes up over 50% of xbox sales here. You have a target audience that wants the latest from technology, unlike Nintendo, and you only provide games that target the latest in technology, so providing hardware that is _not_ is the mismatch. Xbox is doing some sort of strategy to incorporate games that matter more to younger audiences who care less about graphics, but they are a far way from succeeding at it. They've got a storage issue with Series S, and all sorts of other problems, the reality is, it's not a very good cheap product., it should have launched at 1 TB at least because games are massive, and it's only got 500GBs. They lose the most money on Series S because MS wasn't willing to part losing anymore money on it. I have 3 daughters and a lot of them play on PC because the games on PC are designed for their age group. There are just simpler games on PC designed for children that don't have any sort of violence at all. That's not on Xbox and Playstation. There are so few games on both consoles today that don't have some form of violence, and among that do, nearly all of them have have blood. The type of titles that kids are looking for all exist on Nintendo however. I only need to look back to Rare Replay and know, for a fact, we don't make games like that on console anymore. Rare is the only the family division that they have. Sea of Thieves being the least possible violent pirate simulator that one could make, and I suspect that EverWild is going to follow suit.
I would say price hikes on both Xbox and PS5 after 3 years of release, slim models, and SoC revisions, is an indication that it is not getting cheaper. This isn't some assumption here, this is inference. I'm looking at data, I'm not just taking it for granted. This has never occurred in any console generation until as of late. This is the second generation in which Sony has increased prices in Canada after launch, they did it once in PS4, and then did it again with PS5. This is the first year that Xbox has hiked their console prices.
From a 50,000ft perspective of things, both MS and Sony want to be the leader in the next generation of gaming, whatever that may be. I think it's pretty clear that Sony wants it to be hardware based, because Sony is good at hardware, they sell a ridiculous variety of hardware around the world, and there are few companies that move as much electronics as them, you can buy there stuff anywhere in the world. And MS is a software and cloud company, it's natural for them to want the future of gaming to be cloud and hardware agnostic based, there are very few countries you couldn't buy Windows in. So Sony wants it to be VR, which is why they continue this path, and MS wants it to be cloud, which is why they continue investing down that path. The outcome of both of these is not yet determined, but it's clear that today neither path is particularly successful. And yet, as much I know people hate bean counters, you have to listen to bean counters. They are the ones who provide the information to ensure your company stays afloat. If you are going to making investments to change the direction of gaming into your favour, you cannot do it when you're just about dead, you have to do it while you're still financially able to. And so I see the movement of titles to PC as really a sign a that they are both buying time and trying to grab more revenue to fund this transformation until the industry changes into either VR or cloud.
You may look at it as a terrible thing, but sometimes you need to cannibalize their own market; Steve Jobs said "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will".
That time is coming for 'premium' game consoles. you may not believe it, but it's clear both Sony and MS see it. I think they are looking long term, and I think, most people against it are actually looking short term. They both have 1 generation left of whatever this is, unless there is some crazy technology released that will lower the price point. And they are both currently making the moves to secure whatever the actual 'next evolution' of gaming is.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
There's nothing really wrong with the S. Sorry guys, but it may have actually saved the Xbox at 50% of sales. Most S gamers probably don't care about the smaller HD. If the ratio continues, then the S stands for Saved Xbox.
Back to Sony though - I don't think there is much PC / Console crossover. Sorry, but I just don't see guys like me ditching console for PC just because Spider Man 2 is coming on PC in 2026 or something.
Back to Sony though - I don't think there is much PC / Console crossover. Sorry, but I just don't see guys like me ditching console for PC just because Spider Man 2 is coming on PC in 2026 or something.
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I dont think you read the posts carefully
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
How so?
The essential question is whether or not the hardware platform a gamer adopts follows the games or if other factors are more important.
I don't think a current PS gamer that wasn't tempted by PC thusfar is now suddenly going to go PC because Spider-Man 2 is coming to PC in 2026.
Lifestyle considerations are primary. Many PC gamers were born because they couldn't get their wife off the TV for their PS gaming, for instance.
I love speculating about all this stuff, but we really lack the data/research that Sony and MS have access to.
I'm betting Sony has already run 10,000 gamer surveys on all this and determined only 10% of PS users will jump to PC over this move and thus they'll lose 3% of their software revenue (3rd party royalties), but they'll increase 1st party software sales by 30%, which more than makes up for the 3% loss, not to mention keeps their games in the mind of more gamers.
The essential question is whether or not the hardware platform a gamer adopts follows the games or if other factors are more important.
I don't think a current PS gamer that wasn't tempted by PC thusfar is now suddenly going to go PC because Spider-Man 2 is coming to PC in 2026.
Lifestyle considerations are primary. Many PC gamers were born because they couldn't get their wife off the TV for their PS gaming, for instance.
I love speculating about all this stuff, but we really lack the data/research that Sony and MS have access to.
I'm betting Sony has already run 10,000 gamer surveys on all this and determined only 10% of PS users will jump to PC over this move and thus they'll lose 3% of their software revenue (3rd party royalties), but they'll increase 1st party software sales by 30%, which more than makes up for the 3% loss, not to mention keeps their games in the mind of more gamers.
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Er right. We weren't talking just about current Playstation owners switching though. Plus not all console gamers are loyalists. Hence why the XBOX is struggling to retain it's old userbase. XBOX is a testament of how people are abandoning a platform or not joining a platform when it's games are available elsewhere. Likewise someone who didn't buy a PS5 yet isn't necessarily tied to the platform. They play on whatever is convenient. Especially casuals and pretty much everyone owns a PC. Its only just a tiny step to play on that which they already own.
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