Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[AmFreak]

But it's not only about AAA. Some others publishers are thriving by releasing AAA games. Like From Software or Nintendo. What do they do differently at Sony to make so little profits comparatively?

Nintendo can sell games no one else can. No one else can make a Mario Kart and sell 70m. They also don't loose money with hardware.
From Software is comparatively tiny @ ~400 people and releases one hit after another.
Also, s. above, i wouldn't read to much into a single quarter/year.

 

[Scott_Arm]

But it's not only about AAA. Some others publishers are thriving by releasing AAA games. Like From Software or Nintendo. What do they do differently at Sony to make so little profits comparatively?

I would guess a lot of it is just about the budgets of the games and the cost of buying studios and infrequent releases. If a studio takes five years to release a $300 million game (purely hypothetical) you're basically operating at something like a $60 million loss on that studio each year until they start generating revenue. Multiply that same logic to many game studios. Your margins probably become small because you're floating a ton of dev studios that aren't currently making any money. And then you have acquisitions that are being paid off. I think payments for Bungie were mentioned somewhere above.

Elden Ring was pretty expensive to make, but I'm not sure Nintendo falls into the same category of huge budget games or acquisitions. I'm sure their bigger games aren't cheap to make, but probably not the same as an Elden Ring or Spiderman 2.

Edit: Also I'm sure doing things like cancelling Naught Dog's multiplayer game is a big loss. You're paying for years of development and in the end generating zero revenue. That probably eats into your margins, though now that development has stopped your expenses drop, or at least get shifted onto something that'll eventually generate revenue.

 

[Pinstripe]

Sony makes spectacle that wants to imitate film. From and Nintendo make actual games.

 

[Nesh]

Sony makes spectacle that wants to imitate film. From and Nintendo make actual games.

So if you add a cinematic element to a game it's no longer an actual game?

 

[Pinstripe]

Define "cinematic element" when the whole thing becomes it.

 

[metacore]

You could argue that for example Horizon or Spiderman games have more mechanics gameplay possibilities implemented in non clunky way than most third party open worlds. Yeah Sony's production values are still making some people obtuse.

 

[techuse]

Question for you. What do you think contributed to Playstation's popularity and what do you think comes into people's minds when they think of Nintendo?

To give my opinion, software lineup is behind the history of PlayStation dominance. The sheer breadth and variety of games has never been matched. That gave them the branding power they now have. I would say people tend to think of more kid focused games when Nintendo is brought up.

 

[Nesh]

Define "cinematic element" when the whole thing becomes it.

Becomes what? I had hours and hours of gameplay time with GoW, Spiderman and Horizon Forbidden West. Why are they not games? Still trying to figure what you mean.

 

[Shortbread]

Sony makes spectacle that wants to imitate film. From and Nintendo make actual games.

So, games with strong story narratives, cinematic views, and engaging gameplay elements aren't actual games?

So, Cyberpunk 2077, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA V, Final Fantasy series, and the thousands of other PC/console games that lean heavily into cinematography storytelling elements and other cinema-like aspects, must not be games as well!? Damn, I never knew that was the case...

 

[Globalisateur]

Nintendo can sell games no one else can. No one else can make a Mario Kart and sell 70m. They also don't loose money with hardware.
From Software is comparatively tiny @ ~400 people and releases one hit after another.
Also, s. above, i wouldn't read to much into a single quarter/year.

Mario Kart improved clones after clones? From Software basically doing and improving the same Demon's Souls sequels after sequels?

You mean Sony could release a new TLOU game with the same loved characters as the first in order to continue the great story with those characters in the same realistic world? Oops they already killed the main character because of the ego of the director, scratch that (imagine Nintendo killing Mario just because they could! )

Resogun 2? the most crittically acclaimed Housemarque game to get a sequel? Ignore that, let's just reinvent 2 totally new IPs instead.

Jak and Daxter (1, poetic platformer, not shooter like 2, 3) incredible game template still unused after decades?

Bloodborne? Do I really need here to elaborate? Ok I'll do it. Let's fire the whole Japanese Studio (Japan Studio) which was the main reason Sony was still working with From Software back then.

Sony have great IPs, stories, world and great characters. They could also do what From Software or Nintendo are doing with their IPs. Respecting the IPs, characters, game template and the players who love those games.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think one of the good things about Sony is they don't constantly recycle the same IPs, at least without reinventing the game like they did with God of War. I think the games that made PS3 and PS4 really big have just ballooned in budget, but maybe Helldivers 2 will be a reminded that smaller games can be just as popular and maybe more profitable.

 

[see colon]

But it's not only about AAA. Some others publishers are thriving by releasing AAA games. Like From Software or Nintendo. What do they do differently at Sony to make so little profits comparatively?

I'm not sure I would even be talking about From Software in the scope of a publisher the size of Sony. From is a publisher, in that they have published games, but most of their work product are games developed and published by other companies. Their last 8 games have ranged in scope from smaller titles like a 3DS game and a VR title, to bigger things like Elden Ring and Armored Core, and the remaster of Metal Wolf Chaos and Dark Souls. Some of those titles are, I think, outside the definition of AAA.

Nintendo also has a wider variety of budgets than Sony has. Something like Tears of the Kingdom is a big budget affair. Detective Pikachu returns and Warioware Move It are probably not.

To give my opinion, software lineup is behind the history of PlayStation dominance. The sheer breadth and variety of games has never been matched. That gave them the branding power they now have. I would say people tend to think of more kid focused games when Nintendo is brought up.

The problem is, Sony had that history of a diverse first party software lineup. Now they make Gran Turismo, MLB The Show, and 3rd person narrative driven action adventure games. People often complain that Nintendo just makes Mario games, but Mario has been in racing games, sports games, and 3rd person action adventure games on Switch, not to mention party games, fighting games, RPGs, and tactical strategy games. In just Mario titles Nintendo has a more diverse portfolio of games, and they make Zelda, Metroid, Pikman, Pokemon, and Splatoon as well.

Sony's history has given them the branding power they have now, but they only released Spider-Man 2 last year and don't have any more first party major existing PlayStation franchise games releasing before April 2025. Why April? Do they have a game announced for April? Nope, it's the end of the fiscal year for them, and that's the scope of the conversation that the quote was taken from. Can you imagine if Nintendo had no games based on their big franchises for a full year? And that year was following a year where they had 1 big franchise title released.

 

[fehu]

they would just have a negative FY

Yes... it's what I wrote in the post that you quoted... I'm happy that we agree...

 

[wco81]

There seems to be growing expectation that PS5 Pro will release this year, maybe Sept. announcement followed by availability in November.

 

[iroboto]

I would love to see it. But I don’t think it’s coming. I’m not seeing he business case here, with recent moves to move more IP to PC; but I’m very curious as to how the hardware would look like.

 

[Nesh]

By moving their IPs to the PC, especially too soon, may result in the PS's deathbed as a brand, like slow lead poison. The console will be experiencing less and less growth and they won't be able to pinpoint the lack of excitement and interest.

Nintendo built it's legacy with Mario, Zelda and so many franchises and are only associated with Nintendo and only accessible on Nintendo.

Playstation's legacy became third party multiplatform games and games that are accessible on other platforms.

The Playstation used to be the best place to play games because, not only it was getting releases of games from other platforms, it had games that you couldn't play at all unless you had a Playstation.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Yeah, I don't think the multiplatform move would have been unwise if they'd not pushed for too much too quickly. PS5 games should've remained exclusive for the entire generation, while their multiplatform efforts could've been spent porting PS4 games to PC alongside getting them up to snuff on the PS5.

For example, a PC release of Bloodborne along with a free 4K60 PS5 upgrade would've gone down a treat with basically everyone. Even rabid fanboys could justify that kind of move with the notion that the PC port paid for their free upgrade.

 

[see colon]

By moving their IPs to the PC, especially too soon, may result in the PS's deathbed as a brand, like slow lead poison. The console will be experiencing less and less growth and they won't be able to pinpoint the lack of excitement and interest.

Yeah, maybe. But if the alternative is to deal with a market with no growth but ballooning production budgets and shrinking margins, a move like this might be what saves the company from going under. At the very least, it would allow them to take more risks on new ideas, if you have a fallback option of releasing your titles on a secondary platform to generate revenue. Sony's current strategy is not unlike what happens in the film industry, where content is released first to theaters, then on home video, VOD, and eventually streaming services. Movies have multiple chances to generate revenue. Games don't have to be any different in that regard, except for the tradition of gatekeeping content by locking it to specific hardware platforms.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I think one of the good things about Sony is they don't constantly recycle the same IPs, at least without reinventing the game like they did with God of War.

Really? Lol. They've launched 3 Spider-Man games in the last 5 years and keep making special edition director's cut remasters of everything under the sun.

 

[orangpelupa]

nowadays more and more people doesnt understand (windows) PC tho. for them its too complicated and confusing. so for those people, PS console is still a better choice.

hmm maybe that's one of the reason why microsoft office "save dialogue" was bastardized so much....
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on the other hand, if windows PC got a UX overhaul, like a game mode UX.... maybe it'll help to transition console gamers to PC.