Heartbeat Sensor on Dualshock 5

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Well that's not the way I read it. All I saw was someone saying this could be interesting and everyone was saying it's crap and they don't want it but you know what the funny thing is in most circumstance innovations are thought of as gimmicks and unneeded.

" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”

A Steve Jobs quote.
 
knowing someones pulse rate could be quite interesting data to incorporate into some feature.

With telemetry so Sony will be aware of your health while gaming.

And then pointing out how flawed your moan about the light on the front of the Dualshock was.

We can be sure that the lightbar won't return in it's current form for the dualshock 5.
 
Well that's not the way I read it. All I saw was someone saying this could be interesting and everyone was saying it's crap and they don't want it.
Which they're allowed to do. The problem is ToTz put that down to narrow mindedness and a unwillingness to try new things. That's kinda insulting. ToTz (and you) don't want to hear honest opinions of what people think and get all huffy when faced with those honest opinions, arguing it's mental defectiveness on the part of those who see this as a bad idea.

ToTz is free to disagree. The discussion should respectfully address ways this feature may be good, and proper arguments against those think otherwise.

In short, lighten up! ;)
 
And all this for what? It is just a patent, there's a very little chance this might actually end up in the DS5. Most likely it won't.
 
Exactly it probably won't but let's not try be so black and white about new ideas.
Generally speaking, people don't (and aren't expected) to have a balanced viewpoint from the off. They have a viewpoint, and someone else has a different viewpoint. If from the beginning, everyone who felt this patent wasn't any good didn't post anything but instead stopped to think about and look up possible uses and such, there'd be no point for a discussion forum.

People are allowed to be black and white. They are allowed to think a idea is rubbish. They are allowed to be wrong. No-one should be frustrated with, or attempting to silence, those who think an idea is bad, whether that idea is RTRT hardware, biometric sensors in controllers, a specs leak on GitHub, an opinion from a supposed insider, AI processors in Wii, bespoke RT hardware from a console manufacturer, or anything else.

If you think someone is wrong, either post a counter-point, or agree to disagree.
 
Exactly it probably won't but let's not try be so black and white about new ideas.

Well, if a heartrate sensor would end up in a controller, it is not going to be used for 90% of all games if even that. And when it would be used, it wouldn't set the world on fire to say the least. Haptic feedback is more interesting, like the valve controller has.
Remember the pressure sensitive buttons fof the DS2 (and xbox 2001 controller)? It was mostly underused, MGS2, SSX, ridge racer and some others used it. A heartbeat sensor is going to be less of a thing then that even.
 
Well, if a heartrate sensor would end up in a controller, it is not going to be used for 90% of all games if even that. And when it would be used, it wouldn't set the world on fire to say the least. Haptic feedback is more interesting, like the valve controller has.
Remember the pressure sensitive buttons fof the DS2 (and xbox 2001 controller)? It was mostly underused, MGS2, SSX, ridge racer and some others used it. A heartbeat sensor is going to be less of a thing then that even.

You see this is the crux of the matter and I think whats the problem and what Tottz was getting at. Because something didn't work before doesn't mean innovation must end and that seems the argument being put forward. Not why a said feature won't work but because most previous features didn't get utilised so why waste time and effort with anymore.

Well that's the way I read it anyway.
 
You see this is the crux of the matter and I think whats the problem and what Tottz was getting at. Because something didn't work before doesn't mean innovation must end and that seems the argument being put forward. Not why a said feature won't work but because most previous features didn't get utilised so why waste time and effort with anymore.

Well that's the way I read it anyway.

It is beyond most people's imagination how a heartrate sensor would be more successfull then say a lightbar, pressure buttons etc. Even Sony wouldn't actually put that patent into production. It is just a patent like the thousends of others Sony has patented, most of which won't ever see the light in the PS5/DS5.
 
hmm, maybe we should try to think as if we are nintendo. What would nintendo do with HR sensor? Something simple, already used for a long of time in other things/category/market but this time tis gonna be fun for games.

so i think its gonna be....

*** blank ***

i still cant imagine anything other than those i mentioned on previous page... and those are something very un-nintendo.
 
At the time of Wii and Xbox 360, I was the kind of person that collected tech devices that had new features. I'd be an early adopter for a lot of things, because of the exciting idea of how those things would grow over time. Now I'm the exact opposite. I want minimalist, no frills. I do not pursue upgrades. I'm going to drag my phone as far into the future as it'll go. Things like heartbeat sensors don't get me excited. I'll let someone else be the early adopter, and if it has some utility then I'll buy in.
 
Pics of the supposed DS5 that Tommy Fisher sent to the GAF mods:

zFFCrpp.png


tIYN09a.png


Looking at the DS4 while writing this, I can tell the touchpad is larger and the grips are thicker.


What a load of baloney. Improvements like the haptic feedback are things people seem to be looking forwards to. People are in favour of improvements and progress. When it comes to gimmicky stuff though, history has shown time and time again it's a waste of hardware and expense (much of that being on Sony for not doing anything with their controller additions).

Yeah I remember that line of thought when the first capacitive panels appeared on smart(ish)phones.

OMG why would you want to use virtual buttons instead o actual ones? You can't text without looking at the phone.
And who wants capacitive+fingers instead of resistive+stylus? You'll only smudge your phone all the time, yuck..



The problem is ToTz put that down to narrow mindedness and a unwillingness to try new things.
And it's not this because.. people want haptic triggers on the DS5? Which isn't innovative at all because it's a mere evolution of what the XBone gamepads implemented 7 years ago?

That doesn't prove that the people saying the heartbeat sensor won't go anywhere are just people who aren't willing to try anything new that isn't just a mild evolution of what they have right now. I.e. narrow mindedness as you put it yourself.


It is beyond most people's imagination how a heartrate sensor would be more successfull then say a lightbar, pressure buttons etc.

Correct. Successful innovators rarely are limited by what you'd call "most people's imagination".
 
Did you just compare a heartrate sensor to the innovation of touch screens?

Cuz LOL

This heartrate sensor could adjust gameplay/ingame music based on your heartrate, or something like that. If Sony go that route it's a total gimmick then. Makes more sense if it is going to be used for Wii sports or wii fittness like games, which could very well appeal to their userbase, the casuals.
Then again, it's just a patent that even sony won't put into force. Companies patent stupid things all the time.
 
Yeah I remember that line of thought when the first capacitive panels appeared on smart(ish)phones.

OMG why would you want to use virtual buttons instead o actual ones? You can't text without looking at the phone.
And who wants capacitive+fingers instead of resistive+stylus? You'll only smudge your phone all the time, yuck..
One example* doesn't prove your point. There are other cases where people have said, "this is rubbish," when it has been. Like the DS4 light-bar and the WiiU second screen.

That doesn't prove that the people saying the heartbeat sensor won't go anywhere are just people who aren't willing to try anything new that isn't just a mild evolution of what they have right now. I.e. narrow mindedness as you put it yourself.
No it doesn't. If I recommend you try a staples-and-broken-glass sandwich, does your unwillingness to try that make you narrow minded, or sensible?

Correct. Successful innovators rarely are limited by what you'd call "most people's imagination".
Have you any idea how many inventions have been patented over the years, and how many are complete crack-pot nonsense? Just because an idea is left-field, doesn't make it visionary.

How's about instead of claiming, "this is new so must be awesome and everyone who disagrees is narrow-minded and against progress," you instead present some use-cases and a good argument as to why this is a good idea? Compare and contrast it to things like motion controls and touch-pad as to number of games that use these, level of impact, and where and why biosensors would fit in.

* I'm not at all convinced that's how people largely reacted.
 
How's about instead of claiming, "this is new so must be awesome and everyone who disagrees is narrow-minded and against progress," you instead present some use-cases and a good argument as to why this is a good idea? Compare and contrast it to things like motion controls and touch-pad as to number of games that use these, level of impact, and where and why biosensors would fit in.

Speaking of motion controls, Kinect specificially. :) While it ultimately has failed (at least for the moment) many of us protagonists served up a plethora of ideas of how it could enhance multiple genre's of games. Some of those ideas were implemented by a few games (like throwing a grenade), some were not.

But the sad fact is, that only one console supported it so 3rd party attempts to leverage it in average game play (like Mass Effect 3) was rare although it was, IMO, brilliant when it worked. And 1st party efforts focused more on casual gaming (understandable due to control-response lag and potential inaccuracies in tracking) limiting its long term appeal.

Heck, I could even see potentially broad use cases for controller motion controls like the Six-Axis, but even that was limited. 3rd parties are again unlikely to want to experiment due to single platform use. And first party support was spotty.

I can even potentially see something like haptic feedback becoming more mainstream forcing competitors to adopt it. It's just an evolution of rumble which is already widespread, after all.

A heart beat sensor in a standard hand held console controller though? I struggle to find many cases where it would enhance games or lead to revolutionary game ideas.

But that's mostly because it would be tied to a hand held controller. If it was instead a separate accessory that you attached to your body...THEN I could see some interesting use cases.

For example, a horror game senses you are getting scared. It adjusts the audio accordingly. Your controller starts to do weird things (haptic feedback may be really good for this). It senses your heart rate climbing. At which point it puts a scare that potentially makes you drop your controller. At this point a controller based heartbeat sensor becomes useless, but if it was attached? If it was attached, it could continue to monitor your heart rate and continue to adjust what is shown and even more importantly what is heard. Ack! Time to pull the covers over your head or hide behind the couch.

Fitness apps also become much more feasible if it isn't housed in a standard console controller.

But outside of Horror games and Fitness games, I start to struggle finding a good use case for it. Can heartrate be used to measure sadness or happiness? I'd imagine these would be relatively error prone. And even then that doesn't exactly blow open the number of use cases for it enhancing or altering gameplay, IMO.

And then we come back to the fact that it would only be on one system. Something needs to be so good that your competitor is forced to deploy its version of it, if it is to be a long term success. And I can't imagine a scenario where that would happen.

Heck, the fact that Nintendo, who will try anything and everything and damn the rest of the world...the fact that Nintendo investigated the use of a heart rate sensor and didn't go to market with it. That says a lot, IMO.

Regards,
SB
 
At the time of Wii and Xbox 360, I was the kind of person that collected tech devices that had new features. I'd be an early adopter for a lot of things, because of the exciting idea of how those things would grow over time. Now I'm the exact opposite. I want minimalist, no frills. I do not pursue upgrades. I'm going to drag my phone as far into the future as it'll go. Things like heartbeat sensors don't get me excited. I'll let someone else be the early adopter, and if it has some utility then I'll buy in.
You mean as you got older you got less versatile and willing to try new things, like every single human who ages?
:oops:

One example* doesn't prove your point. There are other cases where people have said, "this is rubbish," when it has been. Like the DS4 light-bar and the WiiU second screen.
Those are implementations that people think are rubbish?.
- The DS4's light-bar enabled the PS4's standard controller to be used as a VR controller, which in turn enabled Sony to have the most successful VR platform in the world. It's something the XBone could never achieve once they got rid of mandatory Kinect.
The gyroscope+accelerometer is also extensively used in PSVR, which B3D apparently also hates.

- The Wii U's second screen was considered rubbish by whom? IIRC the idea was considered pretty great, but it was hampered by 1) terrible marketing and console shape that made people think the new console was an accessory to the Wii, and 2) nintendo being cheap asses on processing hardware that turned the home console into a relative potato once the new gens were out.
I certainly don't remember anyone saying ew I can keep playing my games when I go to bed or the toilet? I can have a second screen with HUD elements so it doesn't have to appear in the TV making it more immersive? This is rubbish!
Unless you're talking about console BoM economics which is very obviously out of the scope of 99.99% of console gamers, therefore irrelevant.

It seems that so far, DS4 features that B3D considers rubbish had pretty good outcomes, so I guess B3D's preferences are a great indicator of success. As long as you reverse the results.

you instead present some use-cases and a good argument as to why this is a good idea?
Once you get a base (resting) level for your heartrate, increases in its pace will reveal:
- Stress levels on difficult situations with lots of movement (e.g. battling incoming hordes of enemies)
- Frustration on difficult situations without movement (e.g. trying to break puzzles)
- Fear levels on suspense situation like horror games.

Reversely, a heartbeat that is always close to your baseline means low levels of alertness, meaning the player might be getting bored and less engaged.

Game designers can adjust the number and/or hit points of the incoming hordes in action games, as they want the player to be engaged enough while not feeling too stressed (which causes fatigue). Or perhaps they do want the player to feel stressed during a certain period of time.
On adventure games with puzzles, an indicator of frustration may tell the game it's time to release some extra clues so the player won't quit.

Horror games can choose to shove the monster in the player's face at the best time possible, which is when the heartbeat is at its baseline and their alertedness is low. (IIRC Nintendo wanted to use the Vitality Sensor with an Eternal Darkness remake.)

Player emotions on videogames have always been an open circuit of throwing in whatever the devs hoped that would create reactions on the players.
Once games get an input that gives clues to the game engine of the player's emotions, we now have a semi closed control loop that feeds the game on how successful it's being in generating the intended emotions, and change parameters accordingly.
It has the potential to change things a lot.
 
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Pics of the supposed DS5 that Tommy Fisher sent to the GAF mods:

zFFCrpp.png


tIYN09a.png


Looking at the DS4 while writing this, I can tell the touchpad is larger and the grips are thicker.




Yeah I remember that line of thought when the first capacitive panels appeared on smart(ish)phones.

OMG why would you want to use virtual buttons instead o actual ones? You can't text without looking at the phone.
And who wants capacitive+fingers instead of resistive+stylus? You'll only smudge your phone all the time, yuck..




And it's not this because.. people want haptic triggers on the DS5? Which isn't innovative at all because it's a mere evolution of what the XBone gamepads implemented 7 years ago?

That doesn't prove that the people saying the heartbeat sensor won't go anywhere are just people who aren't willing to try anything new that isn't just a mild evolution of what they have right now. I.e. narrow mindedness as you put it yourself.




Correct. Successful innovators rarely are limited by what you'd call "most people's imagination".

I can't tell any difference between those pictures and the DS4. Everything looks the same to me. I'm positively sure the touchpad is exactly the same size after measuring and comparing both relatively to the controller size. Not saying that's not the DS5, but he should show us the back to confirm there is no lightbar at least.
 
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