NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[bitsandbytes]

Utter bullshit. This has been debunked by BKilian on these B3D forums. MS never provides a spec-sheet and tells the developers to go build a dev-kit.

I didn't know it was debunked. Sorry.

It was based on this post by aegies at GAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47432410&postcount=543

 

[bgassassin]

That would either mean Leadbetter, who put his head above the parapet and said he double checked every source and information, is completely wrong, or that both Orbis and Durango use the same 200 GFLOPS enhanced version of Jaguar:

"(...)we've already mentioned that both the next generation Xbox and its PlayStation competitor feature the same CPU - an eight-core AMD offering running at 1.6GHz and based on its forthcoming low-power, high-performance architecture, Jaguar." Digital Foundry

I think the issue here is that Xbox 3's CPU was never called Jaguar on VGLeaks. It sounds the same on the surface because both are 8-core CPUs clocked at 1.6Ghz. But they aren't as I understand it from a performance perspective.

So too xbox fans mention twice the flops and the rest of you grasp it like it's gospel, it reeks of desperation.

Am I one of the two?

Nintendo *check*
Microsoft *check*

I got to sound more PS4 fanboyish then so I can feel complete.

 

[Bagel seed]

3 more sleeps!

Hopefully we get some real spec reveals. MS may decide to double their CPU again to 400 gflops after seeing the videos on 2/20

 

[Hecatoncheires]

I think the issue here is that Xbox 3's CPU was never called Jaguar. It sounds the same on the surface because both are 8-core CPUs clocked at 1.6Ghz. But they aren't as I understand it from a performance perspective.

What is the difference between Orbis CPU and Durango CPU except for Durango CPU being 100% faster than a vanilla Jaguar? Different manufacturer, different architecture, different node, or just some minor tweakings? Saying that Durango is having twice the theoretical computing power on the CPU side is quite a claim.

 

[bgassassin]

What is the difference between Orbis CPU and Durango CPU except for Durango CPU being 100% faster than a vanilla Jaguar? Different manufacturer, different architecture, different node, or just some minor tweakings? Saying that Durango is having twice the theoretical computing power on the CPU side is quite a claim.

As it stands with what I know, that's pretty much it. It seems there maybe something akin to VMX128 with Durango's version. Still not quite sure. It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

I'd like to hear that. :smile2:

 

[XpiderMX]

As it stands with what I know, that's pretty much it. It seems there maybe something akin to VMX128 with Durango's version. Still not quite sure.

Jaguar support avx,maybe avx2 support for durango? I remember old rumors saying durango with better cpu and orbis with better gpu.

It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

what it mean?

 

[upnorthsox]

As it stands with what I know, that's pretty much it. It seems there maybe something akin to VMX128 with Durango's version. Still not quite sure. It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

So more secret sauce then? Awesome.....

 

[Xbat]

I dont understand it when people say what they been hearing but dont give info. Just tell us what you been hearing or what you basing it on.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Apparently I'm the only one following the discussion...

LOL, really? Because you raised 3D augmented reality then denied anybody mentioned it and now suggest it wouldn't make sense not to do it. If I can't follow you, it's because you're contradicting yourself.

The cameras in Orbis would be for depth perception and a 3D view of the living room - it wants to track the player in the 3D space of their living room and integrate that in 3D inside the TV with game augmentations. It makes little sense to have stereoscopic vision but not enable 3D video capture, unless Sony are giving up on 3D displays.

Actually it makes no sense to have 3D image capture - the types of cameras Sony could afford to put in any device would simply not be up to the task of accurate capture if the intention is to then put that 3D image into a 1080p image - unless they'd be cool with it looking like a bad travelling matte effect.

The success of Wii and Kinect suggests otherwise.

Have you seen many Wii or Kinect games at the top (or in) the all formats games charts?

One minute your talking about Sony being unable to afford anything costly, and the next you're talking about expensive sound-reduction engineering.

There's no "expensive sound-reduction engineering" in the MacMini. Huh?

Do you use your Mac Mini with your ear on the case feeling the vibrations? Because that's what a mic is experiencing as that's what needs to be solved with in-the-case microphones.

The MacMini sits on a glass desk, the same one I use. And yeah, of course it vibrates. Slightly. Again directional mics to capture sounds ahead and not indiscriminately. This isn't expensive technology, it is, and has been, used in all sorts of consumer gear. Phones, tablets, portable gaming machines. It's already cheap.

So when bkilian says they have the world's first and only open mic with a fan attached, and mentions a static tone remover would work but be daft (it won't deal with non-constant vibrations from HDD and optical), is he lying? Or just being an idiot, because all Kinect needs is a directional mic and that solves all background noise and vibration issues?

Not knowing what budget or other design constraints has, who can say? But you're taking like this is only ever one solution to any engineering problem. You're implying it's impossible to make something like this without a fan - which is absurd.

 

[babybumb]

As it stands with what I know, that's pretty much it. It seems there maybe something akin to VMX128 with Durango's version. Still not quite sure. It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

Say it aint sourced from IGN boards like your Wii U claims

 

[MrFox]

It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

What's the source of that rumor?
I find it hard to believe because it would be a big pile of antitrust clusterf$%&. It would also kill AMD, nobody would ever want to touch them with a ten foot pole if there were proofs that a competitor payed to get priority and delay their console.

 

[bgassassin]

I'd like to hear that. :smile2:

what it mean?

I believe it was one of the things that came from Sweetvar that was deleted. I can't quite remember.

Jaguar support avx,maybe avx2 support for durango? I remember old rumors saying durango with better cpu and orbis with better gpu.

I guess you could call it an old rumor, but I think that was based on my initial impressions on limited info so I'd call it an old opinion.

Say it aint sourced from IGN boards like your Wii U claims

What's your hang up with Wii U? You seem to find ways to bring it up. And my claims weren't sourced from IGN boards.

 

[Strange]

nope, the source of vgleaks is superDAE for both

Doesn't change the fact that both sets of information point to the same CPU regardless of source.
Nothing specified for both CPUs are in conflict.

 

[Xbat]

As it stands with what I know, that's pretty much it. It seems there maybe something akin to VMX128 with Durango's version. Still not quite sure. It could explain why Sony got "put to the side" by AMD for MS.

I think his basing this on a remark bkillian made about IBM adding VMX 128 to Xenon and the amd pushing sony aside theory on sweetvar's post about the durango being a super computer compared to orbis. I think

 

[XpiderMX]

I believe it was one of the things that came from Sweetvar that was deleted. I can't quite remember.



I guess you could call it an old rumor, but I think that was based on my initial impressions on limited info so I'd call it an old opinion.



What's your hang up with Wii U? You seem to find ways to bring it up. And my claims weren't source from IGN boards.

sweetvar, youre right, but proelite said that maybe he was confused because sweetvar said durango>orbis, maybe order is inverted.

 

[bgassassin]

Yeah I found the original quote (I think) as I never really saw it myself and only remembered people talking about it. It seems that Sony's delay is open to interpretation as to why it happened.

Alright, I'm in Toronto and was talking to my buddy who works at the AMD headquarters here.

As of what he tells me, they both are using same chip with different specifications from Sony and Microsoft, something like the market's 7700-7800, not really sure. He did mention the word "Jaguar processor".

As for the PS4, the first chip has already been sent out two months ago, it is back after a month or so, for the second revision. He says there should be a third and if they don't see any problems, should be ready for mass production. Apparently, AMD did delay the work, he says it is around 6 months behind schedule.

The Xbox 720/loop or whatever it is called, they are about to ship the chip tomorrow, they are expecting it back within a month or so for the second revision. Xbox is right on time, no delays so far. A feature for the Xbox that the PS4 doesn't have is something related to "ARM security". I did not get that part. However the internal talk at AMD is that, the Xbox is like a super computer(not sure if it is the chip or the console). Him and the team at AMD feels the Xbox is going to be more 'powerful'.

I did ask him to find out what the market equivalent card would the chips be, he said he will. Apparently the Xbox 720 team is sponsoring for lunch and a movie today(Looper), they are about to ship the first chip out tomorrow and they are expecting it back within a month for more revisions. He believes both the consoles should be out next fall, not far from each other.

P.S. He does not play games nor does he know anything about them. So he isn't as curious as you and I are.

 

[patsu]

Interesting. So PS4 is not going to use ARM TrustZone ? What security platform are they going to use ?

 

[AstoundingHolmes]

Is it possible sweetvar was comparing durango's cpu to a vanilla jaguar, which IIRC tops out at 4 cores? Maybe, he was doing a bit of supposition himself, presuming 8 cores is twice as many as 4 cores, so Durango is "twice as fast". On top of that, sweetvar made these statements quite a long time ago, correct? Maybe, it was based on pre-updated specifications for Orbis, which originally had a 4 core piledriver(? I keep mixing the names around), so perhaps with a bit more supposition assumed it would be finalized with a jaguar, again assuming 4 cores.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

I wonder how a single AMD employee can know so much about both projects. Especially the part "Him and the team at AMD feels the Xbox is going to be more 'powerful'." sounds like complete nonsense to me. I doubt that AMD is so heavily unprofessional.