Nintendo Conference

[liolio]

The Wii U form factor is a little too small for anything significant over PS360. I am not really digging the new screen controller. Sony could easily offer those functions when PSV is release later this year. I still think the Wii crowd will switch over to Kinect eventually instead of this. Nintendo lost the plot.

Well the form factor is tiny but there is no HDD. Anyway with a CPU @45 nm no matter its power efficience I can't see Nintendo fitting much GPU horse power into this.
Still for some reasons I wonder if Nintendo could have done something really Nintendo and choose something completely different than what Nvidia or AMD or actually all the graphic vendors provide.
I really wonder about the extend of Nintendo partnership with DMP.

Reading the announcement about "a lot of EDRAM in the CPU, and taking in account the 8GB Flash memory, the fact that de facto you can plug usb keys or external HDD, I wonder if N went with a pretty clever memory hierarchy
Assuming the GPU is include in IBM silicon, the "lot of EDRAM" could used for a lot of bandwidth intensive operation, there would be a tiny pool of main RAM but with low latency characteristic, then the fon board flash then the physical media. Mobile .device makes for a lot of their lacking through the use of flash ROM which make the thing all of sudden damned more reactive.


For kinect well, I'm not concerned about casual only, next leaks would better impress as the system won't be there this fall, Ms in USA at least is set for new records.

 

[temesgen]

Actually the Apple reference isn't even completely correct as they are now being forced to create ads that push the resolution of their retina display as a differentiating feature since the rapid iteration of Android hardware and growth of that platform has become a real threat to them. I was quite taken aback when I heard the ad since it was such a departure for them.

That would be in line with what I mentioned earlier, they will mention specs when it distinguishes their platform. The retina display isn't available anywhere else so it makes sense to hype it.

 

[V3]

Well with CPU you want lots of SRAM, not eDRAM. eDRAM is lower performance, but lower power too so not suprise if Nintendo made that trade.

Well no internal HDD, also external PSU is probably given. I don't think it'll hit big the way Wii does. I expect MS to win it with Kinect. Nintendo is being stuborn again, and letting competition runaway with it.

I'm suprised this are for 2012 actually. This should be ready by end of this year. Why wait till mid 2012 or later ?

 

[Grall]

"It must just be a Wii repackaged"

This forum is now officially stupid

Well, when Wii was first announced, as I recall you were totally convinced it was more than just an overclocked gamecube with more RAM...but let's let sleeping dogs lie, huh?

If it IS a Wii repackaged, what's to be upset about? I still love the Wii hardware, it has aged incredibly gracefully. It's still a beautiful, slender, slick piece of kit, minimalist in execution and perfect in its simplicity. It's just the hardware inside that's kinda crusty and old, and they're fixing that now.

Heck, I'm even alright with the name, having finally gotten used to the silly "Wii" moniker... "Wii U" is certainly better than "PS Vita", which doesn't mean friggin' anything.

The tablet-ish controller looks nice I suppose, but I wonder about battery life, also weight, and how long after launch until we see internet videos of that bigass thing going through an expensive LCD TV panel or squishing someone's eye orbital?

I suppose the tablet controller contains enough hardware to actually run the game, so that the image doesn't have to be wirelessly transferred to the controller. Makes you wonder what differences in visual fidelity the base console vs. the controller will offer - if any, except screen resolution most likely.

Hope that tech demo is really representative of games, it looked fantastic to me.

Yeah, with the disclaimer I only saw rather low bitrate streaming video of games. It does look real nice though, I'm hoping a decent step up from the original Wii hardware-wise, but still restrained enough to fit in a Wii-like casing and running at reasonable temps and low noise.

I'm wondering if it'll be a multi-core ARM processor driving this thing, possibly with an integrated PowerVR GPU. More cores and faster clocks for the base console, scaled-down but same hardware architecture for the controller. That'd be interesting!

The third party games will be early ports so I wouldn't expect them to look much different to the 360/PS3 versions.

Frankly, that ought to be good enough methinks. Hopefully Wii U will have more than 512MB RAM though, so QnD PS360 ports could theoretically offer better texture resolution...

 

[ShadowRunner]

Just remember guys, tech demos dont always translate into what you will see in final games. Actually, now i mention it the tech demo had a similar look to the recent tri-Ace tech demo, which was suposedly on PS360. Seems to me that it will compete well with the current systems but not go too far beyond, doesnt seem possible for them to go too far with the form factor we have seen.

And guys calling bias, read Shiftys signature.

 

[Teasy]

Well, when Wii was first announced, as I recall you were totally convinced it was more than just an overclocked gamecube with more RAM...but let's let sleeping dogs lie, huh?

Clearly we can see this isn't a repackaged Wii, anyone with eyes can.

I argued that Wii was probably more then just an overclocked GC with more ram based on hardware data (even then I was only pointing at possible extra pixel pipes, nothing major). Hardly a similar situation..

I'm wondering if it'll be a multi-core ARM processor driving this thing, possibly with an integrated PowerVR GPU. More cores and faster clocks for the base console, scaled-down but same hardware architecture for the controller. That'd be interesting!

Stop wondering and read the thread maybe? It was confirmed hours ago that its using an IBM multi core CPU and that the controller only streams frames.

 

[liolio]

Well with CPU you want lots of SRAM, not eDRAM. eDRAM is lower performance, but lower power too so not suprise if Nintendo made that trade.

Well no internal HDD, also external PSU is probably given. I don't think it'll hit big the way Wii does. I expect MS to win it with Kinect. Nintendo is being stuborn again, and letting competition runaway with it.

I'm suprised this are for 2012 actually. This should be ready by end of this year. Why wait till mid 2012 or later ?

Well IBM went as far as using DRAM for the POWER A2 L2 cache, they give figure in a paper available on the wiki page speaking about the chip.

I don't believe Nintendo will sell such a tiny thing to link it to a PSU. It has to fit in the design.
No internal HDD but the system is open, USB key and external HDD works. It seems that installations are out question but demo and DLC could be download and save on whatever device used by the user.
Nintendo want to please everybody with this one. I'm far from sure they will succeed. My self I'm bothered by the show I'm let with more question than answers by the time the systems launchs we may have leaks from the competition. Nintendo may better show something consistent soon, the "I don't speak of specs" is doomed. There will be plenty of counter productive noise around the product, not sane expectations, etc.

By the way IBM is happy to announce millions of chips to be sold, I wonder why Nvidia or AMD would hold their tongues if they had got the deal this round.

 

[Nightz]

It's funny that they have been quick to name drop IBM as the CPU supplier. But are very quiet about the GPU. Could that mean there is a possibility that AMD may not end up with the contract for the final GPU design?

Remember how Nintendo removed the Tegra from the 3DS in the last minute, when they discovered real performance was not anywhere near the published specs.

also external PSU is probably given.

I really don't understand this fascination with internal PSU's. External PSU means a smaller form factor. And besides when the PSU in my iMac went faulty it fried the whole motherboard. If it was external all I would have to do was buy a new power adapter instead of a new computer.

 

[obonicus]

I don't believe Nintendo will sell such a tiny thing to link it to a PSU. It has to fit in the design.

The Wii is much smaller and it has an external PSU.

 

[liolio]

The Wii is much smaller and it has an external PSU.

Really? Damned I never noticed in my friends house. I suck

EDIT I did a google search for the sake of it and it's hopefully way tinier than the 360 one, damned that thing is a monster, it reminds me of the old Dell SX 280 we're renewing at my job.

 

[Teasy]

It's funny that they have been quick to name drop IBM as the CPU supplier. But are very quiet about the GPU. Could that mean there is a possibility that AMD may not end up with the contract for the final GPU design?

Remember how Nintendo removed the Tegra from the 3DS in the last minute, when they discovered real performance was not anywhere near the published specs.

Whoever has the contract hasn't announced it yet, but I don't think that gives us any clues as to know has it. I definitely think it'll be locked down by now. Even though 3DS's GPU was changed late it was still locked down as DMP a year or so before launch.

 

[dobwal]

The Wii U form factor is a little too small for anything significant over PS360. I am not really digging the new screen controller. Sony could easily offer those functions when PSV is release later this year. I still think the Wii crowd will switch over to Kinect eventually instead of this. Nintendo lost the plot.

Yeah, I believe it could be something similar to ATI HD 5450. Its passively cooled and can be had in the Dell Zino (small form factor) and retails for ~$50.00 and comes with 1 GB of ram.

Engine clock speed: From 400Mhz to 650Mhz
Processing power (single precision): 104 GigaFLOPS
Polygon throughput: From 400M to 650M polygons/sec
Data fetch rate (32-bit): 12.8 Billion to 20.8 billion fetches/sec
Texel fill rate (billinear filtered): 3.2 Gigatexels - 5.2 Gigatexels/sec
Pixel fill rate: 1.6 Gigapixels - 2.6 Gigapixels/sec
Anti-aliased pixel fill rate: 10.4 Gigasamples/sec
Memory clock speed: 400 MHz DDR2 and up to 800 MHz DDR3
Memory data rate: 0.8 Gbps DDR2 and up to 1.6 Gbps DDR3
Memory bandwidth: 6.4 GB/sec (DDR2) and up to 12.8 GB/sec (DDR3)
Typical power: 19.1Watts

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I Like the controller and the idea. That tech demo doesn't really impress me, especially when that is all it is. I'm not expecting much in terms of a tech leap, but looking forward to seeing more. I quess we have to wait quite a bit for better videos of it in action.

Anyway tech has imo already became secondary to talent, effort and dollars spent on the visuals even if extra power naturally helps.

 

[Teasy]

Yeah, I believe it could be something similar to ATI HD 5450. Its passively cooled and can be had in the Dell Zino (small form factor) and retails for ~$50.00 and comes with 1 GB of ram.

Engine clock speed: From 400Mhz to 650Mhz
Processing power (single precision): 104 GigaFLOPS
Polygon throughput: From 400M to 650M polygons/sec
Data fetch rate (32-bit): 12.8 Billion to 20.8 billion fetches/sec
Texel fill rate (billinear filtered): 3.2 Gigatexels - 5.2 Gigatexels/sec
Pixel fill rate: 1.6 Gigapixels - 2.6 Gigapixels/sec
Anti-aliased pixel fill rate: 10.4 Gigasamples/sec
Memory clock speed: 400 MHz DDR2 and up to 800 MHz DDR3
Memory data rate: 0.8 Gbps DDR2 and up to 1.6 Gbps DDR3
Memory bandwidth: 6.4 GB/sec (DDR2) and up to 12.8 GB/sec (DDR3)
Typical power: 19.1Watts

Don't think that fits the criteria of being more powerful than 360/PS3.

 

[Pete]

Wii U GPU

Whoever has the contract hasn't announced it yet

AMD got it: http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...ole-gaming-entertainment-nyse-amd-1523972.htm

 

[mrcorbo]

That would be in line with what I mentioned earlier, they will mention specs when it distinguishes their platform. The retina display isn't available anywhere else so it makes sense to hype it.

You were agreeing with a statement that said Nintendo don't promote specs and neither do Apple. The above statement I can agree with more as I believe that for any of the 3, if the hardware power is an advantage it will be hyped, just like any other feature that is in their favor over the competiton.

 

[Teasy]

AMD got it: http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...ole-gaming-entertainment-nyse-amd-1523972.htm

Thanks for the link.

 

[dobwal]

Don't think that fits the criteria of being more powerful than 360/PS3.

Based on limited memory its seem very much in line with the gpus found in the 360 and the PS3 except its paired with twice the amount of RAM. If you put double the amount of RAM in the 360 and the PS3 you would have a "more powerful" console.

You could go up a notch to a 5550 which would give you...

Engine clock speed: 550 MHz
Processing power (single precision): 352 GigaFLOPS
Polygon throughput: 550M polygons/sec
Data fetch rate (32-bit): 35.2 billion fetches/sec
Texel fill rate (bilinear filtered): 8.8 Gigatexels/sec
Pixel fill rate: 4.4 Gigapixels/sec
Anti-aliased pixel fill rate: 17.6 Gigasamples/sec
Memory clock speed:
DDR3: 800-900 MHz
GDDR5: 900-1000 MHz
Memory data rate:
DDR3: 1.6 – 1.8 Gbps
GDDR5: 3.6 – 4.0 Gbps
Memory bandwidth:
DDR3: 24.5 – 28.8 GB/s
GDDR5: 57.6 – 64 GB/s
Maximum board power: 39 Watts

Go down to 32nm and its possible you could passively cool it and throw it into a small form factor.

 

[pc999]

Dontknow if anyoneposted but

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/34683.wss

The all-new, Power-based microprocessor will pack some of IBM's most advanced technology into an energy-saving silicon package that will power Nintendo's brand new entertainment experience for consumers worldwide. IBM's unique embedded DRAM, for example, is capable of feeding the multi-core processor large chunks of data to make for a smooth entertainment experience.

IBM plans to produce millions of chips for Nintendo featuring IBM Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology at 45 nanometers (45 billionths of a meter). The custom-designed chips will be made at IBM's state-of-the-art 300mm semiconductor development and manufacturing facility in East Fishkill, N.Y.

I would have loved tohave 4 USB3 ports instead of USB2

 

[Entropy]

Nintendo has taken a HUGE step up in terms of CPU. It would be strange indeed if the GPU didn't scale upwards accordingly.