Sony's Next Generation Portable unveiling - PSP2 in disguise

[Exophase]

I wish you were right.... but considering the "otheros" history with Sony, I seriously doubt that Sony would ever try a dual boot. At best we could hope for a third party browser like chrome or opera as an app to download on the PSN... but an Android dual boot is most likely out of the picture.

The counter to this is that other OS wasn't selling very many PS3s, while an Android option would likely move a lot of them. And while I'm sure NGPs will be sold at a loss (at least for a while) getting them into hands will probably increase game sales, since once you have the multiple hundred dollar device you're bound to make a few $50+ purchases for the most popular games.

It also wouldn't have to strictly look like a dual boot, I'm sure one way or another it can be launched from within the NGP's standard menus as if it were another game.

But I still doubt that Sony will do it.

 

[RudeCurve]

Even ridiculously priced Memory Stick Micro M2s? How many of those do you have?

"It's a Sony", but don't forget there's a good and a bad side to it.

I use micro-SD->MS DUO converters, each converter can hold two micro-SD cards. It would be pretty stupid if the PSP2 doesn't support MS Duo.

 

[V3]

The Speculation™, a B3D Tradition

So, let's not those silly and overrated 'facts' get in the way of what we do best here on B3D forums, speculate. There are still many technical variables left to be unveiled:
- RAM: VRAM, or Unified architecture? eDRAM? And more importantly, how much of it?

Rumor: NGP Specs Dowgraded, 2011 Release in Japan

Hmm did I missed another unveiling on NGP ? I'm not aware they announced the specs of the machine to any great detail yet.

 

[Xenus]

They didn't other then it was rumorer to have at least as much memory as the PS3 thus 512

 

[liem107]

does it really make sense to reduce the memory to increase price competitivity, which would sacrifice graphics quality ?
What is the point of having this "massive" power if in the end texture quality takes such a hit that the final graphics are compromised? would it end up like the PS3 which would certainly have benefited from more GDDR?
After all, having a powerful portable game console should provide better graphics than all these phones/tablets which already have 1 Gb of memory.... or what is the point?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

There is no point in having a device that is so expensive that nobody buys it either. Really, for a handheld system it's all about the games/content. You will be having the same hardware plarform for atleast 5~6 years so whatever hardware you put in now, it's easily going to be beaten by other mobile devices 1 or 2 years from now. No point in trying to win a battle you cant win. So cutting specs down a bit to launch at a better price probably makes more sense. Your still going to have the graphics lead for some time due to direct hardware acces.

 

[Titanio]

does it really make sense to reduce the memory to increase price competitivity, which would sacrifice graphics quality ?
What is the point of having this "massive" power if in the end texture quality takes such a hit that the final graphics are compromised? would it end up like the PS3 which would certainly have benefited from more GDDR?
After all, having a powerful portable game console should provide better graphics than all these phones/tablets which already have 1 Gb of memory.... or what is the point?

I think 'graphics quality' may be more directly a function of how much VRAM is in the thing, and that remains unchanged.

You also can't compare phones/tablets and come to a conclusion about graphics based on how much memory they have relative to NGP. Games on phones/tablets have much less control over memory management than they do on a dedicated machine - NGP's 256+128 will go further than a phone or tablet's 1GB.

Anyway, one has to assume developers have known about this a lot longer than we have. Perhaps they knew, more or less, all along. From the start Sony may have told them not to rely on more than a certain amount of memory, while leaving the option on the table to put in more if they could. The goal posts may not have changed all that much for devs. I also wonder how much difference there is in memory available to games now vs a 512MB iteration - it's possible the bigger memory may have been aimed at fatter OS use for other purposes that have since been abandoned or retooled.

Anyway, just speculation. But come E3 I would be a little surprised if you notice any difference in games shown vs Jan.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

NGP's 256+128 will go further than a phone or tablet's 1GB.

Further than 512 MB, sure. But further than 1GB available RAM, I'm not sure. However, with enough fast flash for streaming content, you wouldn't need as much true RAM. You only need enough for the immediate assets, and being able to swap in assets fast enough would decrease need for having a large store of assets on hand. This hasn't been suggested though, and TBH I am disappointed. If NGP is to have long legs, it needs more RAM to carry it through. I don't think, for the platform, skimping on RAM is the right choice, although for business reasons and costs it may prove to be.

 

[V3]

Further than 512 MB, sure. But further than 1GB available RAM, I'm not sure. However, with enough fast flash for streaming content, you wouldn't need as much true RAM. You only need enough for the immediate assets, and being able to swap in assets fast enough would decrease need for having a large store of assets on hand. This hasn't been suggested though, and TBH I am disappointed. If NGP is to have long legs, it needs more RAM to carry it through. I don't think, for the platform, skimping on RAM is the right choice, although for business reasons and costs it may prove to be.

Seriously people were expecting it to have 512 MB + 128 MB worth of RAM ? The early games are going to be 2 GB in size. 128 + 128 MB should be plenty for NGP.

 

[Npl]

Seriously people were expecting it to have 512 MB + 128 MB worth of RAM ? The early games are going to be 2 GB in size. 128 + 128 MB should be plenty for NGP.

512+128 at the very least, doesnt make sense to use less at current market prices.
Given how fast you can switch between Os and various apps/games I suspect ~ 64MB beeing reserved by the system alone, a good browser needs memory, PS3 ports/tie-ins with similar assets need lotsa ram, hopefully some sort of android conformance (Java - aka mother of ridiculous resource usage) etc etc.

512MB is actually pretty small amount of RAM nowadays.

And besides:

The minimum specs for PS Suite is ARM A8 single core @ 800MHz, 512MB RAM, Adreno 205 GPU/PowerVR SGX540/Tesla 2.5 Integrated graphics core. It also requires a touch screen interface with minimum resolution of 640x360 and a preferred resolution of 800x480 or above. The platform will be periodically updated and compatibility with older systems broken for new games. It requires Android 2.3 or above, which is a bit of a slap in the face for Sony Ericsson X10 series owners...

Apart from requiring 512MB in its current incarnation, the PS Suite will be updated someday - the NGP is far above min req in everything we already know about, having 1GB (or more) Ram could allow it to stay above min reqs for a while longer.
Given that a Quadcore is rather excessive already Id expect the available memory to be sufficient safe (1GB) or excessive (2GB?) aswell.

 

[DieH@rd]

Further than 512 MB, sure. But further than 1GB available RAM, I'm not sure. However, with enough fast flash for streaming content, you wouldn't need as much true RAM. You only need enough for the immediate assets, and being able to swap in assets fast enough would decrease need for having a large store of assets on hand. This hasn't been suggested though, and TBH I am disappointed. If NGP is to have long legs, it needs more RAM to carry it through. I don't think, for the platform, skimping on RAM is the right choice, although for business reasons and costs it may prove to be.

Does anyone have some predictions about the speed of game memory sticks? 01.net rumor mentions that cheaper model will have no internal storage, so bandwith speeds of those cartriges will be important.

 

[liem107]

the big big problem is that Sony must not forget the lessons of the PS3. despite all it s power, ps3 graphics were compromised by it s lack of memory. developpers had to struggle to fit everything they wanted or compromise. The market is not the one of DS and PSP alone anymore.
you can certainly stream assets to compensate but why not for once make life easier for devs? I am sure they would give justice to the NGP if they don't have to spend their time whinning about the lack of memory.
Would devs bet on a huge smartphone/tablet market with extremely rapidly growing horsepower or would they devote again special ressources to a niche market?
Developpers are doing multiplateform and certainly would be reluctant to once more devote special ressources for a "specially limited" device.
Sony would certainly not want NGP games look worse than a game like shadowgun on tegra platform.

 

[Xpuntar]

So, anyone would know what kind of ram configuration would be ideal for NGP?

1x 1Gbit (video) / 2x 1Gbit (system)

In case for system ram is 2Gbit ram really that much more expensive than 1Gbit?

Or is there some other thing like a lack of space to make 4x 1Gbit worth it?

-------------

I hope this just isn't true. Not because of games but for internet browsing on NGP.

No matter how light browser will NGP have but flash+java will just kill it. I can only hope I am wrong on this anyway.

 

[eastmen]

So the current rumor is 256 + 128 MB of ram ?

Anyone else thinks thats a little under powered ? Shouldn't kal-el based tablets due out later this year have at least 1 gig of ram perhaps as much as 2 gigs and a quad core cpu with a decent gpu ?

What will really make the ngp stand out ? Aside from form factor of course.

 

[Exophase]

What will really make the ngp stand out ? Aside from form factor of course.

GPU power obviously, even iPad 2 can't touch it and I'd frankly be surprised if Kal-El's graphics did. With the beating iPad 2 is giving Tegra 2 Kal-El would have to be one massive bump in GPU power, more than I expect.

Seems like NGP would be better off with a single pool of 512MB than 256MB + 128MB, I have to question why they think they need to pair dedicated memory with the SGX 543MP4.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What will really make the ngp stand out ? Aside from form factor of course.

Software library of games, same as why DS still sells with antiquated hardware. Just games would be well short of NGP's potential though, and more RAM would help considerably in providing a better, more rounded experience compared to what people are used to with their smart devices. I'd expect to be able to switch out of a game onto a website of message services and then swap back. That's a convenience that I think people have a right to take for granted these days, because it's standard practice.

 

[eastmen]

GPU power obviously, even iPad 2 can't touch it and I'd frankly be surprised if Kal-El's graphics did. With the beating iPad 2 is giving Tegra 2 Kal-El would have to be one massive bump in GPU power, more than I expect.

Seems like NGP would be better off with a single pool of 512MB than 256MB + 128MB, I have to question why they think they need to pair dedicated memory with the SGX 543MP4.

I guess that remains to be seen moving foward.

Shifty Geezer Quote:

Software library of games, same as why DS still sells with antiquated hardware. Just games would be well short of NGP's potential though, and more RAM would help considerably in providing a better, more rounded experience compared to what people are used to with their smart devices. I'd expect to be able to switch out of a game onto a website of message services and then swap back. That's a convenience that I think people have a right to take for granted these days, because it's standard practice.

But doesn't Sony now have the andriod library whch they will be porting games ?

As for the DS , i think it sells because its dirt cheap , $150 now with a huge library of games.

The NGP will be what $250/$300 that they are saying . Nice tablets like the Asus transformer are already at $400


i dunno , i think its hardware will just be outclassed very shortly and I wonder if there are more cut backs to come.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But doesn't Sony now have the andriod library whch they will be porting games ?

PSS games won't have the same quality as NGP specific games. Titles like Uncharted/LBP will be NGP exclusive, maximising the hardware. I don't forsee anything of that quality appearing on other mobile devices and time soon. The market is full of devices of a huge range of a performance specs, and you'll need to target a minimal common denominator, just like on PC, whch means the best is never got from the hardware.

As other devs have said, being able to write native code can get you maybe as much as twice as much work from the same hardware, which gives you a couple of years of superiority, and then a few of being behind the performance envelope but still good enough, just like PS1/PS2/PS3 compete against far more powerful PC hardware.

The NGP will be what $250/$300 that they are saying . Nice tablets like the Asus transformer are already at $400

But they're not great for games! That's kinda like saying XB360's $200, but a netbook can be got for less. That may be true, but you can't do the same things with it!

Anyone wanting AAA games on the go won't be finding that real gamer experience on tablets and phones. I don't know if that market properly exists anymore, which is the major concern. But if it does, and gamers still want their proper game experience in portable form - the likes of Dragon Quest and Monster Hu8nter and FIFA with real controls and COD Mobile - then tablets won't be able to compete with handheld games consoles.

i dunno , i think its hardware will just be outclassed very shortly and I wonder if there are more cut backs to come.

Doesn't matter. PS3 and XB360 hardwares were outclassed pretty much when they launched, if just going by performance metrics. they are completely outclassed now, but still sell. Wii was outclassed the day it launched, but has sold bucketloads. It's not the hardware that sells, but the experience. DS has been completely outclassed by mobiles for years, but it's bought for the games still. NGP will offer the best controls and games with good looking visuals for years to come, irrespective of how technological progress overtakes it.

 

[Ailuros]

The NGP will be what $250/$300 that they are saying . Nice tablets like the Asus transformer are already at $400

And where the heck is there a reasonable comparison between the two? I can get for 400 even a way more efficient notebook than the Asus transformer so what? The NGP is a handheld console and considering both its CPU and GPU power against the transformer, the latter is quite a bit behind. On the GPU front so much that it's even ridiculous to compare the two.

i dunno , i think its hardware will just be outclassed very shortly and I wonder if there are more cut backs to come.

Not before the advent of Series6/Rogue powered devices 2013 and onwards. In that regard it's nothing new for the computing market since its advent especially with any kind of console hw. Non console hw always surpassed console hw within a relatively short timeframe. On the GPU side of things how long did it take until the G80 was on shelves after the RSX/PS3 or the R600 after the Xenos/Xbox360?

Still the latter consoles can still hold themselves decently for their capabilities nowadays; ok you can't render today's PC games in very high resolutions high details + AA/AF and what not, but that's one of the distinct differences between a high end PC and a console. Nothing new either.

When SONY licensed the IP for the NGP embedded hw was several times more humble than what the NGP will contain in the end.

 

[gongo]

I think NGP and 3DS are the last of gaming handhelds so it does not matter what Sony do...it is the end for this market....unless Sony can conjure up a really ...really good platform synergy with NGP<->PS4....else NGP will be replaced by....iPhone5 and the likes..