Formula 1 - The Eco Friendly Motorsport!

[WhiningKhan]

You get a greater density of fuel in the cylinder head, making a more powerful explosion when the spark goes off. It's the same reason why engines give greater power at sea level and in colder temperatures.

No.

For non-turbocharged engine, limiting factor for performance is not the amount of fuel, but the amount of oxygen. Amount of fuel injected can easily be increased by increasing the injection length (and pressure, if you need to go that far), but since gasoline engine needs a mixture close to stoichiometric, it does not do you any good unless you get more oxygen to burn the fuel with.

The reason why engines give greater power at sea level and colder temperatures is because air is more dense at those conditions, and you get more oxygen molecules per volume unit from intake. This is also the same reason why intercoolers are used with turbocharged engines.

 

[Davros]

despite not being a ferrari fan kimmi is a worthy champion although i cant see him doing much if anything to promote the sport - can you imagine kimi doing chat shows ?
Masa also deserved it i think is it just me or did ferrari shaft him at least twice ?
Also its good hamilton didnt get it imagine fufiling you life's ambition, your dream at 21 at your first attempt that would suck in a way dont ya think

 

[Davros]

what the hells going on how did my post appear before Dj12's ?

 

[Davros]

Just a test settime the p'cs clock later than Dj12's

 

[DJ12]

So they use less space for the fuel and have more room for air then.

 

[dizietsma]

So they use less space for the fuel and have more room for air then.

It's more to do with the density of the fuel increased giving better bang per buck. WhiningKhan is in general right about air being most important but remember here we are talking about Formula 1 where if you can gain an extra 10bhp on top of 900 then that's a worthwhile thing to do, so they do it.

If you cool the fuel for your car that takes to the shops then yes you are wasting your time.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

There was a lot of bleating when Mclaren was in the dock about "they've been found guilty, they should be punished". It should be the same for these other cars. They've been found to infringe the rules, they shouldn't be let off with no sanction.

Yep, maybe they should take the team points away, like they did with cheating Mclaren, which BTW was little more than just speculation and hearsay... And had a 1000x more positive effects of their performance than the 1/10th of a second that these two teams were getting. Serves Ron right if you ask me.

 

[RobertR1]

It'd be a fitting end if the suspect fuel teams lost the constructors points for that race and kept the drivers. The "mclaren" rule is what I'd call it

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

It'd be a fitting end if the suspect fuel teams lost the constructors points for that race and kept the drivers. The "mclaren" rule is what I'd call it

Difference in the Mclaren case is that there is no evidence their car is illegal. In this case, the cars are illegal. There's no doubt they would have been disqualified earlier in the season, and some people (such as Mike Gascoyne) have gone on record saying the cars should be disqualified from the Brazilian race.

 

[V3]

Difference in the Mclaren case is that there is no evidence their car is illegal. In this case, the cars are illegal. There's no doubt they would have been disqualified earlier in the season, and some people (such as Mike Gascoyne) have gone on record saying the cars should be disqualified from the Brazilian race.

This fuel matter has happend before. Basically when this happend their measurement isn't enough evidence to do anything. They can take points, but the teams will get those points back on appeal. The precedent was already set sometime ago. This is not the first time.

 

[Dave Baumann]

This fuel matter has happend before. Basically when this happend their measurement isn't enough evidence to do anything. They can take points, but the teams will get those points back on appeal. The precedent was already set sometime ago. This is not the first time.

IIRC the precident actually stood up - fual samples taken were judged to be different from the control. In this instance though the constructors points were removed but the drivers not.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Hamilton's mechanical trouble at Brazil was out of his hands.

BWHAHHAHA

Hamilton admits human error cost him title

Lewis Hamilton has admitted that his bid for this year's Formula One Championship seemingly came to an end during the last race of the season following a moment of human error.

"My finger slipped on the steering wheel and I accidentally pressed the button used for the starting sequence," Hamilton confided several hours after the event, according to Montreal's French-language daily newspaper La Presse.

That error cut power to his McLaren for an interminable minute, dropping him down to 18th place as the Brazilian Grand Prix entered its eighth lap on the Interlagos circuit.

"The car went into neutral and I had to reinitialize the system, that is, reload the gearbox management program," he explained. The onboard camera recorded images of Hamilton pressing several buttons on his steering wheel while other drivers sped by.

Once his McLaren car was back up to speed, Hamilton would afterwards work his way back up to seventh place, two positions away from the necessary number of points that would have allowed him to be the first rookie World Champion.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071022220432.shtml

It wasn't out of his hands .. rather in it.

US

 

[Unknown Soldier]

As for the interviews after the race, I loved the way Kimi layed the smackdown on McLaren.

"I have enjoyed Formula One much more this year than I enjoyed the last few years, for many reasons - not because of the driving, but for some other reasons.

"It is such a nice big family (at Ferrari), great people to work for. I'd rather win with them than anyone else," Raikkonen added.

After hearing Kimi say that, I'm sure McLaren felt a sting.

Weird that 3 drivers in recent years now have complained about how McLaren treats it's drivers. Montoya, Kimi and now Alonso.

US

 

[DuckThor Evil]

It wasn't out of his hands .. rather in it.

That's weird though, because I'm pretty sure, he lost speed then got it back for few laps and then lost it again for a little while, did he press that button twice or what?

 

[Bludd]

That's weird though, because I'm pretty sure, he lost speed then got it back for few laps and then lost it again for a little while, did he press that button twice or what?

First he dropped to 8th after making an error trying to overtake Alonso. Then he had the gearbox issue which dropped him down to 18th.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

First he dropped to 8th after making an error trying to overtake Alonso. Then he had the finger issue which dropped him down to 18th.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071022101104.shtml

Fixed

 

[stevem]

WhiningKhan is correct. For naturally aspirated or forced induction engines only one thing really matters - volumetric flow. That's why porting is such a big issue & why F1 doesn't allow 5+ valves/cylinder. Yes, compression ratios/fuel mixtures are important but are dictated by the volumetric density of O2 in the cylinder to obtain optimum burn characteristics. This volumetric density in naturally aspirated engines is dictated by temperature & air pressure (due to elevation). So cold air intakes/chilled fuel/water-methanol injection/intercooling all serve to decrease temp -> reduce (pre)detonation -> increase effective octane -> allow greater static/boost compression ratios -> increase HP. Another way to achieve a cleaner, higher air/fuel charge is to run a nitrous system.

Basically, an internal combustion engine is an air-pump. Bottom line is cold fuel helps reduce inlet temp & hence effective octane is higher. If everyone's using the "same" fuel, the advantage is obvious.

If you cool the fuel for your car that takes to the shops then yes you are wasting your time.

Not necessarily... It depends on fuel quality & ECU calibration/capability. If your fuel is marginal, your engine may ping (pre-detonation) on optimum spark map table but modern cars employ ECUs that will retard ignition. Retarding ignition lowers HP. Cooling marginal fuel, may allow your engine to run at its optimum spark mapping. If your car has a "double VANOS" type system, it may well have an advanced spark map (or multiple, or constant active monitoring) that allows the use of premium high octane fuels to provide more HP. In this case cool fuel will allow the ECU to advance the spark & result in effectively higher octane performance.

 

[Phil]

Why? it's how Ferrari got their constructors title win this season.

Actually, I'm sure I read somewhere that with 1st/2nd win in the final GP, Ferrari would have won the constructors title as well, even if only by 1 point.

Difference in the Mclaren case is that there is no evidence their car is illegal. In this case, the cars are illegal. There's no doubt they would have been disqualified earlier in the season, and some people (such as Mike Gascoyne) have gone on record saying the cars should be disqualified from the Brazilian race.

How much of that evidence you're stating has been officially and objectively released to the public though? Given how many people within McLaren knew about the files shows that some of it was used one way or the other - the benefit is/was too hard to prove as there are too many factors involved. I'd say McLaren's loss of constructors points is way less as bad to the outcome of everything compared to what it would do, if the fuel-guilty cars were to be disqualified.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

First he dropped to 8th after making an error trying to overtake Alonso. Then he had the gearbox issue which dropped him down to 18th.

Yep I watched the race twice, and I'm still pretty sure what I said is true. He dropped to 18th got the power back and then after a short while he lost it again for a moment. I'm not talking about the corner four incident here.

As for the spying case, if the blueprints of the Ferrari F1 car is found in the apartment of a Mclaren employee, it's pretty clear cut case to me, no need to speculate anything at that point, quilty as charged.

 

[DJ12]

Actually, I'm sure I read somewhere that with 1st/2nd win in the final GP, Ferrari would have won the constructors title as well, even if only by 1 point.

109 + 109 is 218.

I think even if both McLarens didn't get any points from the last race they still would've had more points than Ferrari.