Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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GB = Gigabyte

Gb = Gigabit

gb = Wrong (/Arnold)


Make sure you get that right in the article.

You can get over 10GB today per $ with regular HDD and much more in 4-5 years. There is absolutely no way for SSD's to become cheaper per GB in that timeframe, no way in hell.


"Chief executive officer of OCZ Technology Group, a leading supplier of DRAM- and flash-based products, said that in five years from now [2009-11-07] the price per gigabyte of solid-state drives (SSDs) will almost match the price per gigabyte of hard disk drives (HDDs)."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storag...ree_to_Five_Years_Chief_Executive_of_OCZ.html

One thing is for sure. The Entry of an SSD can be produced cheaper then a classic drive. Since a console manufacture must take the decline of cost over time in to account the SSD is the best alternative if we look 10 year ahead.

Once again. look at the progress from 2007 to 2009. Look at the compitions today compared to 2007. All major player are in, some from the old industry and some from realted industry, the race will only get faster.
 
"Chief executive officer of OCZ Technology Group, a leading supplier of DRAM- and flash-based products, said that in five years from now [2009-11-07] the price per gigabyte of solid-state drives (SSDs) will almost match the price per gigabyte of hard disk drives (HDDs)."

That "will almost match" is not in the actual quote though, the CEO said "will be getting closer". That's entirely different thing. If at noon I climb on top of my house, I'll get closer to sun... I agree that SSD's will become more mainstream and usable for other things than OS drives. I actually have two 80GB Intel drives that I use for OS/apps and some games also and think they are great, but SSD's will not match the price per GB of normal drives in a very long time. The gap is likely to get closer, but that's only because the gap has been so large. I don't think the difference is going to be small in the given timeframe.
 
Well the 250 dollar modell was about the cheapest thing you could find 2007. Today the field is different.

Kingston has hit sub-100 dollar with 40gb, and that is 2009. We are talking from no sub-200 dollar modells in 2007 and the entery models at around 16gb in 2007. Today you can get a SSD at sub-100 dollar at 40gb. That progress in only 2 years.

If the price of the entry model can be sliced to half the price in less then 2 years, i believe that 80gb of harddrive can be produced and sold for under 50 dollars in 2012.
It's a possibilty, but one requiring a fair few optimisitic presumptions. For someone designing a console to launch in 2012, they need to have the hardware nailed down a good year before hand. If you pick SSD now and negotiate contracts for initial suppliers, you will need you fingers crossed that cost reductions drop suitably. Also these entry-level SSDs don't have the world's best performance from what little I've seen. If you want something fast, matching HDD's transfer speed to cover game loading, it'll cost a little more. That all said, launching at $399 gives a little more leeway. They could take a hit up front knowing the cost of that particular component is likely to drop considerably, enabling a very cheap component at the five year mark when you're wanting to maximise profits at the lower pricepoints.

My chief concern remains performance and installs. A 40 GB SSD will fit a couple of game installs and a bit of DLC. Changing game means considerable wait. I don't know what gamer's typical practices are, if one game at a time is okay. I guess if the console launches with Modern Warfare, they'll only need to fit one game for the first year! :D
 
How on earth is that going to work with load times and flash? Are we looking at 3 minute load times every time you want to play a game? Or do you think they'll bite the bullet at launch for substantial fast flash knowing the price will drop below HDD costs, thus enabling very cheap SKUs down the line while preserving target performance across the entire system?

So the question is which type of flash availabe?

1. Fast, more expensive flash and the controller or

2. Slower, cheaper and possibly larger flash and the controller.

I think there is a justification to loss lead when an even more significant proportion of your consoles costs are going to come down significantly in price even over the first year. The read/write properties of the flash installed in the weakest SKU of the first console released defines the abilities of the console, so even if it gets faster in the future it won't be of much help in terms of raising the capability of the console. For example Sony PS3s are probably still limited by the expected read speeds of the 20/40GB HDDs read speeds and they can't expect a higher streaming rate than that, though you already know this sir!

So theres 3 components to your flash drives speed.

1. Number of chips. The speed scales almost linealy with a good controller. So for example, 1 SD card = 20MB/s read, 10MB/s write. Two SD cards = 40MB/S read, 20MB/s write and so on.

2. Quality of chips. If you use an individual 40MB/s flash chip which costs more initially and install 4 of them you get twice the potential speed of the previous example SD chips or the same speed for half the number.

3. The quality of the controller. We've seen this area is of the greatest importance, although because there are multiple sources of this its not an issue for cost control, however they do need to pick a good one to make the most of the flash and to not give funny performance characteristics.

Lastly theres sort of a fourth consideration as well. Because the game engine talks only to the SSD controller, the quantity and size of the flash behind it can change as the flash controller itself deals with the allocation. So what that means is that, so long as the performance remains the same or higher the console manufacturer can transition to using fewer, smaller chips with higher capacity as the technology matures or even migrate to newer technology if they can find an appropriate controller to fit.

So what way would a console manufacturer go? The most likely direction the console manufacturer would go is to balance more towards speed than capacity in the budget for say a launch console. Capacity can be increased at three 2 yearly intervals, but once the speed is determined it will determine the ability of the console for the remainder of its useful life.
 
That "will almost match" is not in the actual quote though, the CEO said "will be getting closer". That's entirely different thing. If at noon I climb on top of my house, I'll get closer to sun... I agree that SSD's will become more mainstream and usable for other things than OS drives. I actually have two 80GB Intel drives that I use for OS/apps and some games also and think they are great, but SSD's will not match the price per GB of normal drives in a very long time. The gap is likely to get closer, but that's only because the gap has been so large. I don't think the difference is going to be small in the given timeframe.

Still the entry level will get cheaper.

The old tech drive can never be produced much cheaper then the cheapest of today, they can only increase density per layer. NAND and the controller are still fairly young for the consumer market. Almost in this case can be 100% more and still be way under 0,5 dollars per gb. Today the price is several times higher. But still, the fact remains, over a scope of 10 years SSD will be cheaper than the Classic drive.

So if you look for the best price point that you can decrease over time, SSD is the choice. MS know this from experience with Xbox 1. The console market doesn’t need the constant increase of capacity like the PC market, yet. Although 250gb PS3 is nice, you’re still all good with 120gb.
MS started with 20gb, a start in the next generation at 200gb will be much cheaper in 2012 than with a 200gb HDD.

Sure, the price per gb will decrease on classic HDD to but only due to increase of density per layer, not due to cheaper production. More bang for the same buck.
 
It's a possibilty, but one requiring a fair few optimisitic presumptions. For someone designing a console to launch in 2012, they need to have the hardware nailed down a good year before hand. If you pick SSD now and negotiate contracts for initial suppliers, you will need you fingers crossed that cost reductions drop suitably. Also these entry-level SSDs don't have the world's best performance from what little I've seen. If you want something fast, matching HDD's transfer speed to cover game loading, it'll cost a little more. That all said, launching at $399 gives a little more leeway. They could take a hit up front knowing the cost of that particular component is likely to drop considerably, enabling a very cheap component at the five year mark when you're wanting to maximise profits at the lower pricepoints.

My chief concern remains performance and installs. A 40 GB SSD will fit a couple of game installs and a bit of DLC. Changing game means considerable wait. I don't know what gamer's typical practices are, if one game at a time is okay. I guess if the console launches with Modern Warfare, they'll only need to fit one game for the first year! :D

40gb is today.

200gb SSD in 2013-2014 (I think 2102 is too early for the next gen) will be enough as an entry. Entry with a SDD at 200gb in 2013 will be cheaper then entry with a 200gb classic model.

Sure the design has to be pinned down 1-2 years in advance but the product won't start until max 8 month before launch, and the price at that point will be the expected market price at the time of production, not the time of design.
 
The old tech drive can never be produced much cheaper then the cheapest of today
Which is around 30$ on the street, so say 25$ for the console ... in 2 years using the cheapest of the cheap flash (and hoping a controller can make something nice of it) that might get you 32GB. The fact that SSD scales so easily in cost goes both ways, they can have mass storage on a HD (real mass storage which allows downloadable blueray games without breaking a sweat) and a cheap SSD streaming cache.
 
I think that in 2012 200GB will not be an option due to data density
My middle range notebook has a 2 layer 500GB hdd, so in 2 years maybe the starting point will be ~400GB for the same 40$, too competitive for pure ssd
 
Another option would be to make a HDD standard and replace it with flash when it gets cheaper.
I'm sure we will see a PS3 40 Gb core model with SSD when it became cheaper than the 120GB 2.5" HDD they have now.
 
40gb is today.

200gb SSD in 2013-2014.
But that's 40GB today at $100, no? You're saying in two years the price will drop to a third at the same time as the capacity increasing five-fold?! I've tended to think of flash doubling in size each year, with a related halving of cost for the same capacity. I can't see 200GBs being cheap by 2013, and I can't see the console companies willing to spend $100+ per unit for adding 200GB of SSD when they could spend $30 for either the same capacity HDD or a smaller quantity of flash.
 
I'm thinking at least 500GB HDDs. If they weren't locking themselves into notebook drives they could do a lot better though. Drop a 2TB drive in them. I think that digital distribution of console games is on the way.

I don't really see the point in SSDs for storage frankly. The costs are way too high and the advantages are really not that tangible. If you need insane random access performance, then you bring in the SSDs. Good for servers.

I really want to see noisy optical drives gone and loading times improved. Any HDD can do that.
 
If they do removable storeage and games can be kept at the 10-12GB level then why not simply sell a base console with no HDD and a moderate/small quantity of flash to store online DLC, patches etc and use an external SSD based 'cartridge' for downloadable content from say kiosks etc?

If they kept the console base price lower and offer people the 'option' of going to a kiosk and downloading games onto their console storage system. At a write speed of 200MB/S they an easily transfer a 12GB game inside 60s.

So you take your base console price which may be $299 and either give people an option to buy one seperately or buy them together with the console for $399 with the cartridge accessory sold seperately for $150 and that way you can satisfy the market of people who just want a simple cheap device and the people who want fast loading and no noise or to download their content from the comfort of their own home.

They ought to be able to release a drive in a 34 months which is 240GB with 200MB/S write speeds for $150 retail or $90 at wholesale/cost. The current drives on Newegg are $299 for 128GB so is it unreasonable to expect a 50% reduction in cost and a doubling of capacity in the intervening 34 months?
 
If they do removable storeage and games can be kept at the 10-12GB level then why not simply sell a base console with no HDD and a moderate/small quantity of flash to store online DLC, patches etc and use an external SSD based 'cartridge' for downloadable content from say kiosks etc?
That debate is here.
 
What's the point of Blu-Ray then? Arent we going to see an increase in size compared to this gen?

Blu Ray is kinda pointless for this generation in that 7.1 lossless audio will still remain something only a niche will appreciate and most games on the Xbox 360 aside from about 12 are still less than the maximum space afforded by Xbox 360's 6.8GB. Next generation perhaps we'll see the need for 10-12GB as the media space requirements hasn't scaled that greatly with memory or processing power and you're always limited by the streaming speed rather than the capacity with optical discs.
 
I'm thinking at least 500GB HDDs. If they weren't locking themselves into notebook drives they could do a lot better though.
Desktop drives are much bigger, heavier, more power hungry, and their costs don't go down as much as 2.5" as bigger drives are released because they take more materials to make, their platters are more expensive, their motors are beefier and thus more expensive etc. They'd end up costing more, a lot more. Why do you think MS moved from 3.5" in the xbox to 2.5" in the 360?
 
I wonder why no one has ever made a drive with a really large amount of cheap DRAM cache in it, like say, 256MB or 512MB. Right now, you could probably put 256MB on a single chip, and even something like 800MB/s SDRAM or 1.6GB/s DDR would be insanely fast even compared to flash. Nintendo kind of did this with the gamecubes CD drive, with the 16MB extra system RAM, you can see the load time differences in games.

Seems like with smart programming, you could keep enough data ahead of yourself to hide loads and speed up streaming, ect. Why has no one ever done that?
 
But that's 40GB today at $100, no? You're saying in two years the price will drop to a third at the same time as the capacity increasing five-fold?! I've tended to think of flash doubling in size each year, with a related halving of cost for the same capacity. I can't see 200GBs being cheap by 2013, and I can't see the console companies willing to spend $100+ per unit for adding 200GB of SSD when they could spend $30 for either the same capacity HDD or a smaller quantity of flash.

2007 - 16gb for 225 dollars to consumer
2009 - 40gb for less then 100 dollar to consumer

more then half the price with 5 times' more capacity i 2 years

and still you don't belive that 200gb at around 30-40 dollar to produce in 2013?
 
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