The Next-gen Situation discussion *spawn

Ha ha, that's like the launch of PS3. At the beginning, there was [strike]light.[/strike] nothing on PSN except for the web-based PS store (and other loose apps). The different developers are supposed to provide the complete online experience themselves. The reception wasn't that great.
 
One thing I haven't seen as an idea to counter game resale for 2013 gen is modding. If there is one thing that adds value to a game without having to use up developer resources it is modding and user created content like Little Big Planet. Now I know MS, Sony, and Nintendo won't just provide a server to let everyone upload whatever they like so a console mod will likely need to be curated which means the consoles probably won't get nude mods.

Also a possibility with modding is that it can cost a small amount and have a percent go to the modders with the publisher and provider (MS, Sony, Nintento) taking a percent--33% each. It's perplexing why these companies don't embrace modding. Developers love it and build their games to be easily modded.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Yes, that's what I've been saying.

How are you going to measure that? ND release a next-gen LoU/UC type game, that'll look amazing. How do you qualify that it is 'destroying' UE4 space shooter on PC running at 2x the resolution, 2x the framerate, and bettter IQ? Or an open-space Assassin's Creed? Or Battlefield 4? I can well believe that, as always happens, there'll be a wave of enthusiasm for first-party titles on Sony's console that 'blow the competition out of the water', but such sentiments are going to be so subjective and dominated by art and style and non-technical features that the comparisons will be ludicrous ("This on-rails shooter looks a million times better than that open-world survival game. This photoreaslitic racer looks a million times better than that highly stylised but technically more demanding racer").

Look at this list of best graphics nominees from E3 2012: http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1416295/e3_2012_best_graphics_of_the_show.html

Nine out of eleven titles are cross platform. When next gen launches, the cross platform games will be numerous and running in superior quality on PC, the same as if PS360 launched with Crysis, or Gears had launched on PC alongside XB360 - same games only far better on PC where the hardware can be much more expensive and powerful.
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Shifty Geezer said:
Neither. We were talking about comparing games on PS4 to games on (far) more powerful PCs, and you suggesting the PS4 would blow the PC away. You can look at an example of Uncharted 4 on PS4 and say it's 'better' than any game on a more powerful PC, but there's no measure to that. It's just a visceral, subjective response. We've had many such discussions on this board where people make claims that different looking games on different platforms are superior technical achievements (PS3 exclusive corridor shooter is so much better than XB360 open-space shooter, yada yada). I'm sure we'll have more when next gen launches.
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The spec for PC games next gen will be console quality. They'll use the same assets, only PC will run those same assets at higher resolution and framerate. It'll be exactly the same as UE3 games now. PS360 cannot outperform a PC because at the very least, the PC game is running the same assets in higher quality. More usually the PC is adding layers of complexity in lighting, physics, number of objects, etc. Scalable engines may not be fabulously efficient, but they do enable better hardware to produce better results.

Except the PC doesn't need tailoring because it's so much more powerful than XB360 that it could run the same game in better quality!
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1- I do believe that first and second generation nextgen console exclusive titles would be technically (AI, Physics, Annimations) and graphically (textures, shaders, lighting, post processing effects...) more impressive than most PC games. These consoles are fixed boxes, developers have the freedom to use all the processing power offered and manufacturers have the incentive to help developers achieve that.

your argument that most multiplatform console games nowadays are also released on PC, Thus PCs would end up running better graphics than anything nextgen consoles could offer, is simply not true. for mainly 2 reasons :

a- Microsoft and Sony have all the incentive to simply not allow multiplatform developers to release the same games on PC at least for the first 6 months-1 year lifetime of the game (and lock graphical features too), if a pc gamer think that he will enjoy the same multiplatform nextgen games simultaneoulsy on his superior PC, he will be very disappointed and wait for that to happen months and months.

As an example we have the Fifa franchise, PC gamers didnt play the same console game until years afterward, EA simply refused to offer the same nextgen experience on PC because the real money is on the consoles side, pushing football games lovers to buy an xbox360/ps3 instead of aa powerful PC. Unlike what you said, I expect this kind of practice would bee even more intensified than ever for nextgen consoles.

b- exclusive console games would end up technically better than any multiplatform game, due to all the advantages for developers working exclusively on one console playing to its strenghs.

2- How to judge that game A on the same console is technically superior to game B ?
the answer is : "trained eyes", of course an average gamer wouldnt be able to make the difference, he could even consider some cheap effects as better looking than some per pixel expensive effects. But the more the eyes of the gamer are trained and educated, and the more pronounced technical differences really are, the easier it is to discern those differences.

I would give this example and put it this way : it is very easy for an average gamer to judge gran turismo 3 on ps2 as technically superior and graphically more impressive than gran turismo 2 on ps1, but it would be more difficult but still possible for him to judge gran turismo 3 as technically superior to ridge racer ps2, and it would be even more difficult for him to decide which game is graphically superior gran turismo 3 or burnout 3 on ps2 ? but again between gt4 and burnout 3 it is easier for the average gamer to make a judgement in favor of gt4...etc

on the other hand, a more trained and technically educated gamer wont find any difficulties comparing between those games and deciding which game is technically more impressive...

look at Halo1 on xbox1, it was an exclusive game, and most gamers agreed that it was technically and graphically more impressive than any other multiplatform game on that console.
 
Davros said:
That users can create themselves ?
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Well I'd settle for anyone having them. Ideally professionally hosted, but user hosted could do the job if PCs were allowed to run the server and you could find people with good and stable upload rates.

There's nothing to stop the current second rate Xbox Live system co-existing with professionally and user hosted servers. A 16 player game hosted on an Xbox connected to a 50 KB/s upload ADSL line, contending with porn torrents, youtube cat videos and hi-res facebook mirror portraits is always going to be a really shitty experience. And yet that is exactly what MS's "it prints money" Xbox Live service is built on the back of ... :(
 
Including me. When you want to play Halo with your friends, you have to pay. Playing something not as good with people you don't like / don't know hardly seems preferable even if it's free.

Fortunately (erm, sort of) Halo 4 is a bit shit so the Fellowship of the Ring is likely break up or move elsewhere, freeing me up from Xbox Live.
 
Not sure if this has been posted, and it's unclear how reliable it is...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/387287/cvg-sources-sony-to-abandon-dualshock-design-for-ps4/

Experiments within Sony's R&D department are thought to have been extensive. Versions of the new PS4 pad include biometric sensors on the grips and an LCD touch screen, the development source claimed.

A second source, working in a separate part of the industry but still connected to Sony, said PlayStation engineers are "trying to emulate the same user interface philosophies as the PS Vita". This is likely a reference to the touch-screen capabilities of the PlayStation handheld, and a suggestion that Sony will tightly integrate its portable and home systems.
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dumbo11 said:
Not sure if this has been posted, and it's unclear how reliable it is...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/387287/cvg-sources-sony-to-abandon-dualshock-design-for-ps4/
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Same user interface could mean back touchpad. There are issues with two screens, making the addition of a controller screen an expensive addition with debatable value. A rear touchpad would take nothing away from the existing core experience (don't have to take eyes off the TV to use) but could have value, such as choosing a target area for a pass in a sports game.

Edit: Duh, the report says a touchscreen. ;) But I wouldn't be surprised if they're thinking touchpad as well, unless that's not working well on Vita.

Then again, they could design a Vita without any of its electronics, saving a bundle as just a touch screen. Still a fairly expensive controller though.
 
Touchscreen will definitely be good for in-game XMB-successor and RTS.

Hopefully it's cheap enough.

Also, does that imply no split controller then ?
 
patsu said:
Touchscreen will definitely be good for in-game XMB-successor and RTS.

Hopefully it's cheap enough.

Also, does that imply no split controller then ?
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Yeah, it's interesting. I thought Sony would go with something like Move as the default controller. A touchpad controller could be good. I wonder if they'll do the rear touch surface like Vita has, whatever that's called. I guess it's still a touchpad. Have any devs figured out a good way to make use of that on Vita yet?
 
Rear touchpad seems pointless.

I did try it at the store and having it on the back makes gestures harder to pull off.

Now, if games used touchpad or physical controls and you just flip the controller over, that might work. But if you have to use buttons, then the touchpad on the back will be an optional scheme that won't be used.
 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

They are saying the ps4 will have an 8 core jaguar set up with 4 gigs of gdr 5 and a 7970 mobile class gpu . The os will use 512 megs while the Durango will use the same 8 core jaguar with 8 gigs of ddr3 which 3 gigs is used up by the OS


I can't really believe this. Right now windows 8 on my pc with a bunch of things running is at 3.5GB of ram. So unless MS is putting full windows 8 on every Durango something has to be wrong with the OS numbers.
 
Scott_Arm said:
Yeah, it's interesting. I thought Sony would go with something like Move as the default controller. A touchpad controller could be good. I wonder if they'll do the rear touch surface like Vita has, whatever that's called. I guess it's still a touchpad. Have any devs figured out a good way to make use of that on Vita yet?
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There are a couple of controller rumors now. One of the older ones have LEDs on the controller so that the PS3 can track its location a la Move. I have no idea how that comes along.

A touchscreen controller should be more fun than a touchpad controller. Besides the usual touchscreen benefits, I can use a Vita as a stand-in and then leave the house to continue the Cross-Play title.

The back touchpad on Vita wasn't used much. Most use it probably for web surfing (twitter and other apps) because both your hands are on the grips, freeing your fingers to scroll the page. Game-wise, I think Media Molecule's next game is supposed to use it heavily. You can poke a finger from behind to disrupt the game world while continuing to manage other stuff. I don't know how well it will work.

Personally, I think biometrics is better than back touchpad.

A camera and mic might be interesting too.

Or a transparent panel for the touchscreen. It may be more synergistic with the Omni viewer rumor if the user doesn't want to wear glasses.

EDIT:
For splittable controller, it sounds awkward, hefty and expensive once they incorporate the touchscreen... then again they introduced this:
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...-delivers-double-the-accuracy-of-a-dualshock/

So I don't know what to say here... :LOL:
 
eastmen said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

They are saying the ps4 will have an 8 core jaguar set up with 4 gigs of gdr 5 and a 7970 mobile class gpu . The os will use 512 megs while the Durango will use the same 8 core jaguar with 8 gigs of ddr3 which 3 gigs is used up by the OS


I can't really believe this. Right now windows 8 on my pc with a bunch of things running is at 3.5GB of ram. So unless MS is putting full windows 8 on every Durango something has to be wrong with the OS numbers.
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And they quote bkillian from this very forum. :oops:
 
eastmen said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

They are saying the ps4 will have an 8 core jaguar set up with 4 gigs of gdr 5 and a 7970 mobile class gpu . The os will use 512 megs while the Durango will use the same 8 core jaguar with 8 gigs of ddr3 which 3 gigs is used up by the OS


I can't really believe this. Right now windows 8 on my pc with a bunch of things running is at 3.5GB of ram. So unless MS is putting full windows 8 on every Durango something has to be wrong with the OS numbers.
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Well may be MSFT in search for the intensive that will developers to actually develop metro applications that would run on either Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, xbox 8 :LOL:
 
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