Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2011]

[TheWretched]

Like the disabled chat in Dark Souls? And controller preference is something that lies in the eye of the beholder. It's absolutely subjective and thus must not be factor. I prefer the DualShock controllers by far. I hate the "skewed" analog sticks on 360. But that doesn't mean the PS3 version is better. For all we care, all users can buy a third party controller with the layout of the competing console.

I mean... there were often quite... moot choices in "who won". The audio options on PS3 are never ever looked at, but mandatory installations are always frowned upon. I think this isn't "fair". I actually think that installations are often quite good, because it leads to lower loading times and less wear of the optical drive. There are some aggravating exceptions though, like GT5, where the installation takes FAR too long and the loading times are still very bad (unless you own an SSD). But of course I do prefer the way Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica do it with "in-game HDD buffering". Or the way Fallout 3 did it, with in-game installation.

 

[djskribbles]

Cross game chat ya, but controller is a preference whereas audio quality isn't. Whether cross game chat or better audio quality is more important is up to you.

 

[TheWretched]

Then the same can be said about graphics, whether you care for it or don't... There's just no question that basically all PS3 games feature better audio options compared to 360... but it never gets the credit it deserves. Yet the visuals are ALWAYS the qualifier for "console H wins". And suddenly, when all things are equal, audio doesn't matter?? I highly question that!

 

[KongRudi]

The online is kind of special in this game (Dark Souls).
So if you're a Silver-member, I assume you'll loose alot of the game-experience, with no ghosts, phantoms, other people's bloodstains and writing in the floor, etc. the game get's extra brutal.
So free online is a feature-advantage for the PS3 more so than usual on RPG's. :-/

Other than that, it dosn't seem to matter wich you choose.

 

[Rangers]

Then the same can be said about graphics, whether you care for it or don't... There's just no question that basically all PS3 games feature better audio options compared to 360... but it never gets the credit it deserves. Yet the visuals are ALWAYS the qualifier for "console H wins". And suddenly, when all things are equal, audio doesn't matter?? I highly question that!

I'd like to see a survey of what percent of consumers have setups that could tell the difference. Surely less than 1%.

Once again, where are you getting "audio doesn't matter"? DF has (erroneously imo) been making that the deciding factor in their face offs for a while now. Something maybe .01% of people will use.

That controller is "a preference" doesn't have any bearing on that it should be a higher factor than trivial audio options. Just as DF often says to choose the platform you have more online friends on.

I'm aware DS cross chat is disabled, I wasn't referring to DS.

And if you're on about installations, well 360 always has a full optional install that PS3 partial install cant match. So 360 will win every time if you go to that criteria as you wish. Perhaps they should factor that more fully into their platform of choice as well? Seems more relevant than 7.1 audio.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The whole 'platform of choice' question is a fairly irrelevant one anyway. Most people have one or other console, not both, so they will buy for their console. The comparisons just let you know if you're getting a very different experience or not. DF just provides the 'choice thing' as a structure to their articles, where the typical reader isn't particularly interested in the differences so much as the system wars. The real meat of the DF articles lies in the differences between platforms and considerations on design choices, but it appears few readers can distil that from the ratings-friendly competition format.

 

[-tkf-]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-console-battlefield-3

Interesting bits...

BTW, remember guys when Joker said RSX was sloppy on geometry side back in 06? And then he said something pretty funny in FB2 thread?

How big were the differences then?

 

[Arwin]

Indeed.

Isn't that because of the deferred renderer?

 

[assurdum]

How big were the differences then?

Is it a serious question? If so I think the differences are pretty irrilevant, they are almost identical whether not at all virtually. By the way I think it's all thanks to DiCE great job, because if something on 360 would be worse we have to hear the same thing on the 360 front (lazy job, ps3 lead etc etc like FFXIII or Brink) imho.

 

[Gitaroo]

Huh? They just said in Dark Souls choose it for the PS3 audio, or friends...

I disagree though, a trivial audio difference sounds like really stretching it as a reason to recommend a platform, DF probably only does it cause of all the backlash they get from PS3 fans. I'd say even something like controller preference, or cross game chat, etc rates a much bigger factor than that.

you play games in 7.1 pcm? To me its a huge deal, cuz the difference can be quite big from games to game and its a huge dea. A lot of ppl are still using stereo speakers, DF always listed the support audio but rarely mentioned most of the time. To ppl that have the equipment, its easily an plus. If you have equipment and not using it its like playing your games in SD on a HD tv.

 

[Ruskie]

F1 face off. RAGE and Crysis coming soon.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-f1-2011-face-off

There is big difference in this one.

 

[assurdum]

F1 face off. RAGE and Crysis coming soon.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-f1-2011-face-off

There is big difference in this one.

The video face off not works...a little ot: why the FXAA isn't yet used on the spe? Not suitable? I think FXAA through the combined SPE could even gives results similar to high FXAA on the pc & with less cost & more results of MLAA...

 

[kagemaru]

Is it a serious question? If so I think the differences are pretty irrilevant, they are almost identical whether not at all virtually. By the way I think it's all thanks to DiCE great job, because if something on 360 would be worse we have to hear the same thing on the 360 front (lazy job, ps3 lead etc etc like FFXIII or Brink) imho.

AFAIR, people don't usually jump to the "lazy dev" excuse when 360 versions are lacking. Brink is likely a lower resolution on the 360 to avoid tiling and there are signs that Square didn't make the best effort with FFXIII.

DICE has clearly made a lot of effort to keep parity between the ps3 and 360 versions though and it shows. Other than a few subtle differences, the lack of bloom in the 360 beta is probably the only immediate difference.

The video face off not works...a little ot: why the FXAA isn't yet used on the spe? Not suitable? I think FXAA through the combined SPE could even gives results similar to high FXAA on the pc & with less cost & more results of MLAA...

It's probably possible to port FXAA to the SPUs but I'd imagine a developer would probably just use MLAA instead. Sounds like it would be more work to adapt FXAA to the SPUs than to use MLAA that is already optimized for use on the Cell (+RSX). :smile:

 

[2real4tv]

What is up with the tires on the ps3 version?

Is something wrong with the ps3 captures, look at the blacks.

especially this shot, look like a 16 bit skybox(hope my laptop is not going bad ):

 

[AlNom]

Other than a few subtle differences, the lack of bloom in the 360 beta is probably the only immediate difference.

The bloom is there, it's just not so.. strong. A fat bloom or washout of colours across the screen is indicative of a lower precision/res post-process (bigger upscale of bloom to native res).

 

[kagemaru]

The bloom is there, it's just not so.. strong. A fat bloom or washout of colours across the screen is indicative of a lower precision/res post-process (bigger upscale of bloom to native res).

Yeah that's what I meant by lacking, sorry.

So by the bloom being stronger on the ps3, it's an indication that it's running at a lower precision? What you're saying makes sense, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding you here. Thanks Al.

 

[AlNom]

I should say it's more washed out in the particular screen I see there rather than "stronger". You want the bloom to be bright near the light source and not bleed out too much from it. Actually, Bungie has some screenshot comparisons in their attempts to reduce bloom & lighting washout due to "insufficient precision" in their HDR lighting presentation. Might want to have a peek at it.

Maybe Laa-Yosh would care to comment since he'd know more about it than I do.

 

[Gitaroo]

Seems like out of all the Codemaster game, Dirt is the only game that they seems to put the most effort into to achieve platform parity. Others can be very rough, I'm guessing they are all being handled by a different team. Surprise me that Sony still haven't look into solving the sub pixel aliasing problem with MLAA, where others researchers are going so. If they want devs to use it as a alternative to their AA solution I think they really should, that and the performance cost. U3 is suppose to use something similar right, guess we will see how that turn out in the final game.

 

[assurdum]

AFAIR, people don't usually jump to the "lazy dev" excuse when 360 versions are lacking. Brink is likely a lower resolution on the 360 to avoid tiling and there are signs that Square didn't make the best effort with FFXIII.

DICE has clearly made a lot of effort to keep parity between the ps3 and 360 versions though and it shows. Other than a few subtle differences, the lack of bloom in the 360 beta is probably the only immediate difference.



It's probably possible to port FXAA to the SPUs but I'd imagine a developer would probably just use MLAA instead. Sounds like it would be more work to adapt FXAA to the SPUs than to use MLAA that is already optimized for use on the Cell (+RSX). :smile:

Oups I'm joking but well I found this 'meme' ever funny... I don't said FFXIII can be better but I'm not sure SE has put so few resources or effort on 360 development (especially after the exclusive lost for sony & the continues agreement with MS for a series of project); however there are a lot of more developers on the ps3 don't put the best effort especially when coming to pc area than happened on 360...so I think it's the normal of things to hear more complians on the ps3 than 360 (obviously when are realistic, of course). About FXAA I think we need to wait the next Santa Monica project...

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Maybe Laa-Yosh would care to comment since he'd know more about it than I do.

I've lost track of what we do in post a long time ago, been too busy with the asset side.
I do know we have a former director of photography assisting us with lots of pretty interesting tips that go a long way in establishing the look of our movies. These are some kind of trade secrets, though, so I won't describe them

I also know that we generally hate bloom but I'm going to ask around sometime. Whenever we use it it's definitely subtle. And we do render at some pretty high HDR precision and use tone mapping and a gamma correct pipeline, so if those aren't present then whatever I can find out has no meaning.