Image Quality and Framebuffer Speculations for WIP/alpha/beta/E3 games *Read the first post*

A new screen of skyrim
dragonshoutfeaturedjpg1.jpg
 
AlStrong said:
Supersampling applies to any factor above 1.0 of the output resolution. It could be 1281 x 721 and I'd still call it supersampling, as ridiculous as it seems. The clues are in what aliasing doesn't appear. 1.5x1.5 SS won't solve all edge cases, and neither will 2x2.
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Yeah, but if they're going to supersample - why do it half-assed and leave aliasing in? why not do 8x or something?

Could it be possible this is a 360 screen and they've managed to retain the 4xMSAA seen in Fallout 3?
 
dragonelite said:
A new screen of skyrim
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Nothing to trust here. :p Plus there's a ton of compression.
(((interference))) said:
Yeah, but if they're going to supersample - why do it half-assed and leave aliasing in? why not do 8x or something?
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It's not like we haven't seen 900p, 1080p or 1440p downsampled to 720p before. Even 2160p downsampled won't get rid of steep angled edge aliasing. And don't forget that non-integer factors don't provide an even downsampling, so you may have some oddity on edges in the "averaging". Or they may simply not have a tile mode available for taking ultra high bullshots. Even so, whoever is in charge of PR shots may also simply not have wanted to spend the 30 seconds it would take per shot to render even 4x4 times 720p. Hell, when I take 6400x3600 shots in Mass Effect 2 sans MSAA, it takes almost a minute. Whatever the reason, it doesn't really matter.

Could it be possible this is a 360 screen and they've managed to retain the 4xMSAA seen in Fallout 3?
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Too hard to tell. There's too much compression and not really any decent edges to check. What gives the supersampling away is just how fine the thin foliage looks plus the retention of detail in the far back. The compression doesn't help either, but I wouldn't be surprised if this were 900p or 1080p.
 
 
Doesn't look like sub -HD frambuffer res but DOF looks to be below 1280x720 res and thus anything infront or behind DOF layer will have that res. Dont think though I see distant DOF but if there is that could also create same effect.
 
It does look like low quality DOF, I hope the game at least maintains 720p buffer on consoles out of all things. The custom AA is either buggy or not implemented yet since the jaggy is all over the place most of the time.
 
Nebula said:
Doesn't look like sub -HD frambuffer res but DOF looks to be below 1280x720 res and thus anything infront or behind DOF layer will have that res. Dont think though I see distant DOF but if there is that could also create same effect.
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The horizontal res is curious. lucky for everyone, I'll be gone for awhile starting now!
 
There does appear to be 2xAA on a number of surfaces as well, but it'd be hard to say if that's the temporal AA they were talking about. It's interesting because it's also on surfaces that are close to camera as opposed to far away, which is not in agreement with their presentation. As for the custom AA that was meant for nearby objects... I'll have to check that later.

Nebula said:
Dont keep the numbers for yourself, share it man!
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I don't have any numbers for the time being, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same as what I found last year based off of some other trailer. Besides, we also have to consider that fitting three RTs into eDRAM is a concern for them.
 
AlStrong said:
There does appear to be 2xAA on a number of surfaces as well, but it'd be hard to say if that's the temporal AA they were talking about. It's interesting because it's also on surfaces that are close to camera as opposed to far away, which is not in agreement with their presentation. As for the custom AA that was meant for nearby objects... I'll have to check that later.


I don't have any numbers for the time being, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same as what I found last year based off of some other trailer. Besides, we also have to consider that fitting three RTs into eDRAM is a concern for them.
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I also read a comment by a user at 3D Center forum speculating about 2xAA. Thanks for speculations/info.
 
Nebula said:
But suppose 360 version might be sub-HD.. what if PS3 version is not? Still flop? :eek:
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Well if 360 version has no AA or AF and resolution is sub HD i don't expect ps3 version to be HD since everything they released thus far,all the tech papers,suggest that ps3 version is crappier one.
 
Ruskie said:
Well if 360 version has no AA or AF and resolution is sub HD i don't expect ps3 version to be HD since everything they released thus far,all the tech papers,suggest that ps3 version is crappier one.
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:???: huh? I never read something of that in the tech papers...
 
assurdum said:
:???: huh? I never read something of that in the tech papers...
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Not exactly saying crappier one but their rendering times(albeit older),GI,SSAO all have small advantage on 360.Plus all that they shown was from that version thats why i said it but it does not need to be.
 
Ruskie said:
Not exactly saying crappier one but their rendering times(albeit older),GI,SSAO all have small advantage on 360.Plus all that they shown was from that version thats why i said it but it does not need to be.
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I know those small advantage, but the 'presumable' sub hd on 360 it's caused to ed ram limits, ps3 hasn't ed ram and unified architecture with mean those previous small differences, but theorically give other 'advantages' how not worry about resolution buffers and others thing, from my perspective... 360 & ps3 are almost opposite in pro & cons, I don't understood your skepticism.
 
I'd be concerned about using the half-resolution 2xMSAA upscale trick on the scene lighting look-up/rendering.

Rangers said:
Which was 720P?
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1120 or 1152 x 720 at the time I can't remember exactly, but even then the trailer footage then was pretty compressed, and I don't have time at the moment to check todays screenshots.

Nebula said:
Doesn't look like sub -HD frambuffer res but DOF looks to be below 1280x720 res and thus anything infront or behind DOF layer will have that res. Dont think though I see distant DOF but if there is that could also create same effect.
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The main problem is that these screens are mostly showing wireframed structures, which is clearly a crap scenario for any sort of lower resolution rendering techniques.
 
AlStrong said:
1120 or 1152 x 720 at the time I can't remember exactly, but even then the trailer footage then was pretty compressed, and I don't have time at the moment to check todays screenshots.
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Isn't that possibly alike Reach?

The main problem is that these screens are mostly showing wireframed structures, which is clearly a crap scenario for any sort of lower resolution rendering techniques.
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To bad since distant DOF would do nice to smooth out lower detail city buildings. I do notice though their gun aim DOF is quite different from Crysis games. In Crysis games the DOF is dynamically applied as per how you focus with aim and in lower settings it is more like a radial blur at edges. Anyway distant DOF helps a lot and they should drop other effect(s) to get decent distant DOF.
 
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