NPD August 2008

I think the overarching point wasn't that the PS3's "blip" didn't exist, but more that it was a data oddity, rather than a trend. 2008 has been pretty much exactly the same between the two systems with the exception of that single month. The funny thing is that perception seems to be that the 360 is struggling this year, when all reports indicate it's about to steamroll to great sales for the last 1/3 of the year. The same perception is that the PS3 is now a sales success at the 360's expense... for instance, you discussed in detail last month that you felt the PS3's "momentum" was continuing while in the same two-sentence paragraph quoting a <10% sales gap.

Year over year the PS3 is vastly improved, which is where most of the 'PS3 is doing great' comes from. Everyone's up year over year, but the PS3 is up the most.

Otherwise, yeah. But otherwise 'all reports' doesn't mean anything, since they're either drawn up by forum warriors (who are almost always wrong) or by analysts who have had the knack to be steadily wrong. No one knows what the hell is going on, or what's going to happen, it's pretty clear by now. Hell, these days it seems safer to bet against everyone's predictions (unless the prediction is that the Wii will sell more than the other two consoles).
 
I think what the battle will come down to is the importance of price of entry versus value for money. The 360 is poised to win the battle for price of entry, but the PS3 is in the best position to win the value for money bid. For instance, the difference between having a BluRay drive vs having a DVD drive in the console will be reduced to a negligible amount eventually. We could be close to that already, as what makes standalone BluRay players expensive is that which a console already has by default.

What strategy works best, we'll find out this year no doubt, with MIcrosoft now having an entry level at 199. Even if Sony stays at 399, it still competes in terms of value, but it will be interesting to see whether or not they can manage to go to 349 or 299. If they can go to 299, Microsoft may face tough times. If they can't, then it'll be hard to predict, but I'm expecting the 360 to win the rest of the year.

As for doing great, last year the PS3 was lagging considerably against the 360 month over month. This year, they're equal (tiny advantage to PS3) so far. So that's where the idea that the PS3 is doing well comes from - it's simply not doing worse than the 360 like it did last year.
 
take away the MGS4 bundle month and the machines are only ~12.8k per month apart each month all year average.

Ok I'll bite ;D

So how many MGS4 bundle consoles were made for NA?

On that note I have already seen the PS3 80GB $399.00 at local Walmarts in the New England region and I no longer hear or find any of the MGS4 PS3 80GB and if there are any they are not that easy to find at a store for me as of this date.

There should be a Little Big Planet PS3 80GB bundle and eventually when the 160GB Uncharted Drake's Fortune PS3 shows up at $499.00 so I will hold on making predictions as it seems Sony is giving consumers bonuses for buying the console and MS will have to comply.

Then again the recent price drops made one of my friends buy a X360 Elite and he did get Forza2 and Marvel Alliance games free, not sure if it was a bundle as I have not seen it at Walmart.
 
Then again the recent price drops made one of my friends buy a X360 Elite and he did get Forza2 and Marvel Alliance games free, not sure if it was a bundle as I have not seen it at Walmart.

That was last years bundle, I think left overs are still out there. This is the bundle I got with mine.
 
I think the overarching point wasn't that the PS3's "blip" didn't exist, but more that it was a data oddity, rather than a trend. 2008 has been pretty much exactly the same between the two systems with the exception of that single month. The funny thing is that perception seems to be that the 360 is struggling this year, when all reports indicate it's about to steamroll to great sales for the last 1/3 of the year. The same perception is that the PS3 is now a sales success at the 360's expense... for instance, you discussed in detail last month that you felt the PS3's "momentum" was continuing while in the same two-sentence paragraph quoting a <10% sales gap.

I believe the point that was being made is that 2008 is actually pretty dull sales-wise, with the battle for 2nd place being roughly the same scenario as last gen in terms of competition, while first place chuckles away, growing the lead every month by a large margin.

Other than the MS price drop and Gears of War 2 what is it that is going to cause Microsoft's XBox 360 to steamroll to great sales to years end?

And do you think Sony is incapable of competing given what MGS4 already factored? or for that matter what the up comming releases are going to factor, ie LBP, Resistance 2, etc.

I really hate to say this but your post almost makes me think of Obama vs McCain since NPD is limited to NA, mainly USA.
 
That was last years bundle, I think left overs are still out there. This is the bundle I got with mine.

when you got that bundle, did you get the 175Watt PSU?

I'm a bit confused, one of my friends did buy a then $470 Elite last June to replace his RROD Halo 3 edition Premium XBox 360 but he did not get Forza/marvelA included yet he did get the 175Watt PSU indicating a Falcon 65nmCPU/80nmGPU not that it helped him anyways since out of all the games he avoided to play until the last two weeks, Halo 3 is the only game causing framerate slowdown in his Falcon Elite.
 
There should be a Little Big Planet PS3 80GB bundle

Is LBP something the masses actually care about, or is it one of those niche titles that has forum dwellers excited because of some innovative technology? This is a serious question, as I only hear excitement for this title among gaming forum types.
 
when you got that bundle, did you get the 175Watt PSU?

I'm a bit confused, one of my friends did buy a then $470 Elite last June to replace his RROD Halo 3 edition Premium XBox 360 but he did not get Forza/marvelA included yet he did get the 175Watt PSU indicating a Falcon 65nmCPU/80nmGPU not that it helped him anyways since out of all the games he avoided to play until the last two weeks, Halo 3 is the only game causing framerate slowdown in his Falcon Elite.

Yes, I have a 175W Falcon, I got it in Feb I think.
 
I think what the battle will come down to is the importance of price of entry versus value for money.

Has this ever been a factor in any mass-produced item? Whether it was Henry Ford or it's Microsoft or Sony, you make money by making the product affordable to the largest number of people.

For all it's 'innovation' and not to discount the importance of its IP, the Wii had a huge leaping-off point as being a 'next generation' console at essentially half the price of its competitors.

As Ranger pointed out (and nobody else seemed interested in discussing, because a PS3/360 pissing match over a statistically insignificant variance is more exciting), the numbers show that LTD the combined PS3 and 360 totals exceed those of the Wii.

Now that the 360 has under-cut the Wii, and comparing the consoles side by side is laughable, we'll see what the impact on sales is.
 
The PS3 is US$100+ more expensive and still sell at similar level than a more mature platform in its strongest market. It's actually doing pretty well.

yes and that $100 extra for a Blu ray player is a great deal for those that want hidef movies and like to play games occasionally too.
 
The PS3 is US$100+ more expensive and still sell at similar level than a more mature platform in its strongest market. It's actually doing pretty well.
That's true, but relevant to the 2nd place race where it's absolute sales that matter. In the discussion of which platform is outselling which, price doesn't have a say.

Is LBP something the masses actually care about, or is it one of those niche titles that has forum dwellers excited because of some innovative technology? This is a serious question, as I only hear excitement for this title among gaming forum types.
It's garnered great interest at all showings, E3, Sony roadshows, consumer events, etc. Non-gaming-specific media covers the game pretty strongly too. It's hard to quantify to any degree, but it's looking good. Also the response from gamers isn't totally disassociated from the rest of the world - we're are all human after all! The cute fun of LBP translates well to demographics. I certainly think PS3+LBP, espiecally with a strong social-Lifestyle ad campaign, will be a desirable product this Christmas, but I also think the $400+ price-point is going to hold it back, and the sales won't exactly reflect the games interest. Still, with Singstar ABBA and a few others, the 'non-gamer' sector is going to be well served. Will be a very interesting holiday!
 
That's true, but relevant to the 2nd place race where it's absolute sales that matter. In the discussion of which platform is outselling which, price doesn't have a say.

Yes, it is a classical struggle between market share and profitability. Still doesn't mask the fact that the PS3 platform has settled down very well.

The race for 2nd place is not just determined by price. MS's and Sony's ability to position their platform properly is more strategic. We will soon see how MS intends to address its future customers. It is not difficult for Sony to offer promotions (without marking down its console) to maintain the pricing gap, but in my view, it will be more difficult for them to come up with a coherent message for PS3. It's something they have been struggling with all along.
 
Is LBP something the masses actually care about, or is it one of those niche titles that has forum dwellers excited because of some innovative technology? This is a serious question, as I only hear excitement for this title among gaming forum types.

There's positive responses among non-gaming types, but otherwise it's hard to gauge, it's mostly anecdotal. But recall that we've also been completely incapable of gauging (and especially understanding) the success of any of Nintendo's hits, other than a gradual acceptance of 'it'll sell because it's Nintendo' which is the stupidest analysis possible.
 
Is LBP something the masses actually care about, or is it one of those niche titles that has forum dwellers excited because of some innovative technology? This is a serious question, as I only hear excitement for this title among gaming forum types.

When I said there should be a LBP PS3 bundle coming out, I meant it in future tense because I already saw leaked box art for both the LBP 80GB PS3 and Uncharted 160GB PS3. Of course it made sense to me that Sony would push their game to the entry level buyer who is buying a console for the first time and happens to get a free game or included game as a way to eventually compare to the MGS4 bundle.

BTW when I bought my PS3 60GB last year it was during the "store bundles" since I thought that it was a great deal I price matched with Walmart/Best Buy to get Heavenly Sword and the Blu-Ray remote for free.

If I would have held out and waited I would have bitten the MGS4 hook without thinking about it twice to substract/add to the NPD :D
 
Also the response from gamers isn't totally disassociated from the rest of the world - we're are all human after all!

We' re also the people who were hyped about No More Heroes, Eternal Darkness, Okami, and Jet Grind Radio. That's why I was wondering...anecdotal excitement on forums doesn't seem to imply much when it comes to sales.

Rancidlunchmeat said:
the numbers show that LTD the combined PS3 and 360 totals exceed those of the Wii.

It's time for Nintendo to go software-only.
 
The PS3 is US$100+ more expensive and still sell at similar level than a more mature platform in its strongest market. It's actually doing pretty well.
The PS3 is definately doing well at it's current price point, however, the comparison to the 360 as a "more mature" platform is disingenuous. It _should_ be selling well, it hasn't yet tapped out the core gamer demographic, which the 360 is starting to saturate now. The first 10 million is easy money. It's the next 30 million that is the uphill slog. The 360 is now starting on that slog, in which you have to switch your appeal from feature conscious customers, to value conscious customers. Your average family playing rock band, or singstar, or lips is not going to care about the blu-ray on their SD 27" CRT display. They _are_ going to care that they can essentially get the same value (in games) for half the price.
I think what the battle will come down to is the importance of price of entry versus value for money. The 360 is poised to win the battle for price of entry, but the PS3 is in the best position to win the value for money bid. For instance, the difference between having a BluRay drive vs having a DVD drive in the console will be reduced to a negligible amount eventually. We could be close to that already, as what makes standalone BluRay players expensive is that which a console already has by default.
Except that with the new prices, I can get an XBox 360 and a Sony BD player for only $30 more than a PS3. And I can do it over 2 months in more digestible chunks, instead of all at once, thus saving me some sticker shock. As the price of BD drives comes down, it will not only affect the price of the PS3, but also the standalones, and they'll reduce in price faster because their chipsets are far simpler and easier to cost reduce than the PS3. With Sony now focused on profitability like the Xbox folks were last year, they'll be reluctant to price reduce aggressively, especially since 200K a month in the non-holiday months is damn respectable at their price point.
Other than the MS price drop and Gears of War 2 what is it that is going to cause Microsoft's XBox 360 to steamroll to great sales to years end?
Other than {List of things that will cause effect} what will cause this effect?
I'd say that the price drop all by itself will be the biggest contributor. No idea what Gears 2 will do for console sales, due to the previously mentioned possible saturation of the hardcore market. My predictions are that it's the games that aren't the "usual suspects" that will drive console sales. The one month Rock Band exclusive, Lips, Banjo Kazooie and Fable 2. The extra value being added to Live with the gameshows stuff and netflix, and so on doesn't hurt either.
 
We' re also the people who were hyped about No More Heroes, Eternal Darkness, Okami, and Jet Grind Radio. That's why I was wondering...anecdotal excitement on forums doesn't seem to imply much when it comes to sales.

.

Wait, except for No More Heroes, a great number of console gamers have fond, and I mean very fond memories of having experienced ED, Okami and Jet Grind Radio, but those gamers are hard core for the most part who cannot be trusted when it comes to sales, same can be said for casuals because they cannot be trusted when it comes to sales.

Its like if they just ported the Sims again and everyone fell under a rain of casual mediocrety.

It's time for Nintendo to go software-only.

Nice try, I'm sure I could use something Darth Vader said in Ep IV to make that statement seem insignificant next to Nintendo Power.:)

The PS3 is definately doing well at it's current price point, however, the comparison to the 360 as a "more mature" platform is disingenuous. It _should_ be selling well, it hasn't yet tapped out the core gamer demographic, which the 360 is starting to saturate now. The first 10 million is easy money. It's the next 30 million that is the uphill slog. The 360 is now starting on that slog, in which you have to switch your appeal from feature conscious customers, to value conscious customers. Your average family playing rock band, or singstar, or lips is not going to care about the blu-ray on their SD 27" CRT display. They _are_ going to care that they can essentially get the same value (in games) for half the price.

So you don't think that a value conscious consumer is not going to know about the RRoD or that they will eventually be forced to pay for peripherals that should have been included from day one?

The $199.00 "Arcade" X360 is hardly a value to even a casual gamer, it seems more as a way to position the console to challenge Nintendo Wii sales, but the problem here is that Nintendo Wii is getting free press from casual publications, sites and tv programs so what makes you think that those same casuals if asked about the $199.00 X360 are seriously going to recommend the purchase when Nintendo has all the features, the kid friendly games, Wii Fit and most important of all low hardware failiures.

It would be really ugly if those same casuals were told to buy them and 33 or hell even 10 percent of those casuals get a RRoD, its like playing with matches in a fireworks storage house.

Except that with the new prices, I can get an XBox 360 and a Sony BD player for only $30 more than a PS3. And I can do it over 2 months in more digestible chunks, instead of all at once, thus saving me some sticker shock. As the price of BD drives comes down, it will not only affect the price of the PS3, but also the standalones, and they'll reduce in price faster because their chipsets are far simpler and easier to cost reduce than the PS3. With Sony now focused on profitability like the Xbox folks were last year, they'll be reluctant to price reduce aggressively, especially since 200K a month in the non-holiday months is damn respectable at their price point.
Other than {List of things that will cause effect} what will cause this effect?

Maybe some one can see buying two separate items that equal one item's price as less of a sticker shock since you are buying separate but in the end the smart consumer knows to buy the all in one box since that is going to take up less power sockets and therefore not force you to buy more power strips or surge protectors.

But in the end its really going to come down to if the average consumers are as well informed as we think they are, then again we don't run focus groups (personally I hate that concept).

I'd say that the price drop all by itself will be the biggest contributor. No idea what Gears 2 will do for console sales, due to the previously mentioned possible saturation of the hardcore market. My predictions are that it's the games that aren't the "usual suspects" that will drive console sales. The one month Rock Band exclusive, Lips, Banjo Kazooie and Fable 2. The extra value being added to Live with the gameshows stuff and netflix, and so on doesn't hurt either.

I don't deny that MS XBox360 will get a major boost in sales come the next NPD on price drop stats.

I am aware that we should not speculate too much into the future but other than Gears 2 I don't see anything screamming to the non-console having customer to go out and buy since Fable 2 is more likely to be purchased by those who played the first one, Banjo Kazooie is chasing former Nintendo players (a major unknown) and all the other stuff you mentioned seems to require XBL.

As far as I can see it will be a bloodbath three way war where Sony and MS are throwing tomatoes at each other and Nintendo is safely watching from the Skybox while sipping Crystal with the Game-Girls.
 
Other than {List of things that will cause effect} what will cause this effect?
I'd say that the price drop all by itself will be the biggest contributor. No idea what Gears 2 will do for console sales, due to the previously mentioned possible saturation of the hardcore market. My predictions are that it's the games that aren't the "usual suspects" that will drive console sales. The one month Rock Band exclusive, Lips, Banjo Kazooie and Fable 2. The extra value being added to Live with the gameshows stuff and netflix, and so on doesn't hurt either.

Actually, isn't MS already marketing RB2 very aggressively? I still suspect that MS isn't going to put a lot of marketing effort on GeoW2 (at least compared to what it'll apply to other titles), because the people who are going to get it made up their mind already, months ago. It's going to sell itself. The only question is if the online is spectacularly successful, like CoD4's, in which case it'll develop long legs more on word of mouth than marketing effort.
 
Anybody have any idea which games you can not play on the Arcade version?
Any game that needs HDD is given, but there aren't many of those I believe, so what other limits, if any, are there.
 
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