Youth may prefer lower quality music.

[_xxx_]

s research (assuming it's done properly) is that younger people think MP3 sounds "better." If that's true I think there may be some interesting reasons behind this.

Well, psychoacustic processing does a lot of neat things while actually lowering the quality in a technical sense. And the term psychoacoustics itself says it all.

For example a usual compressor/limiter/gate will actually distort the signal and cut off some stuff, but will also produce a result which is more "pleasant" and "punchy" for the listener. And let's not even mention all the discussions about "warm" sound and tubes - technically inferior results, acoustically superior results. So guess that's the effect we have here - people got used to booming bass and lacking mids.

 

[pcchen]

What bitrate MP3s are you referring to? My experience dictates that the average person (assuming my friends are average, i.e. they would have no interest in this discussion) can tell the difference in a 128K MP3 (or AAC whatever they use) bought from iTunes and a CD, even on a crappy car stereo. Dunno which they prefer, I didn't think to ask...

Oh, when we did the test we compressed our own MP3 from the CD using LAME and 320kbps. Then they were decompressed with a very good decoder back to WAV, and the two WAVs (one original and another "processed") were compared in an ABX test. This of course is a bit harder than general 128kbps MP3.

I even did a file comparison between the two WAV and most samples only differ by 1, so it's indeed difficult.

 

[Arwin]

I blame iTunes ... their bitrates and quality has always sucked. I don't know how it is now, but I tried it 1 year ago, and one or two years before that, and each time I thought my headphones had broken or my hearing kaput. Terrible.

 

[suryad]

I blame iTunes ... their bitrates and quality has always sucked. I don't know how it is now, but I tried it 1 year ago, and one or two years before that, and each time I thought my headphones had broken or my hearing kaput. Terrible.

Could not agree more.

 

[homerdog]

Oh, when we did the test we compressed our own MP3 from the CD using LAME and 320kbps. Then they were decompressed with a very good decoder back to WAV, and the two WAVs (one original and another "processed") were compared in an ABX test. This of course is a bit harder than general 128kbps MP3.

I even did a file comparison between the two WAV and most samples only differ by 1, so it's indeed difficult.

I admit unless I'm using some high end headphones I would have trouble noticing the difference between a 320kbps MP3 and a lossless recording with most source material. But as Blazkowicz pointed out, certain types of music lend themselves better to compression than others; throw in a complex album where I know every little nuance and detail, say Yankee Hotel Foxtrot by Wilco, and I'll spot the difference pretty quickly. Womanizer by Britney Spears... not so much

 

[Kyyla]

Nothing quite improves sound quality as much as the price tag on the equipment (assuming you paid for it).

Amen to that.

 

[PARANOiA]

I blame iTunes ... their bitrates and quality has always sucked. I don't know how it is now, but I tried it 1 year ago, and one or two years before that, and each time I thought my headphones had broken or my hearing kaput. Terrible.

Bingo. I bought the latest album from my favourite band on Itunes and was shocked to find it 128kb/s. I haven't had a 128kb/s since, well, I was on 56k. I deleted it instantly and grabbed another copy.

I also agree it's largely equipment-driven. The default headphones or speakers people use are junk. Some great albums sound poor without a decent setup, which is a shame - I just hope it doesn't turn into a lowest common denominator for artists moving forward.

 

[_xxx_]

On the other side, there are reasonable limits to the price tag at some point. 16000 € for a pair of B&O Beolab 5 speakers is just sick for example.

EDIT: this is some absolute top gear - http://www.raum-ton-kunst.de/index....&page=shop.browse&manufacturer_id=2&Itemid=63

Belt-driven CD-Player for 36900€, wow...

 

[soylent]

Remember electron tubes vs. transistors? Remember vinyl vs. CD?

Some people have grown accustomed to the particular kind of distortion these devices introduce and prefer it(they even object to it being called lower quality even though accurate reproduction of sound is clearly compromised).

 

[V3]

On the other side, there are reasonable limits to the price tag at some point. 16000 € for a pair of B&O Beolab 5 speakers is just sick for example.

EDIT: this is some absolute top gear - http://www.raum-ton-kunst.de/index....&page=shop.browse&manufacturer_id=2&Itemid=63

Belt-driven CD-Player for 36900€, wow...

In the high-end prices those money can only afford cable. Crazy isn't ?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Remember electron tubes vs. transistors? Remember vinyl vs. CD?

Some people have grown accustomed to the particular kind of distortion these devices introduce and prefer it(they even object to it being called lower quality even though accurate reproduction of sound is clearly compromised).

I buy vinyl exclusively, but it's not really a sound quality issue. I rip everything to MP3 for my iPod. It's also not a habit thing, I'm only 28. It's an overall aesthetic for me. I love huge album art. I love the weight and the smell. I love setting the needle in the groove. And I do think records sound beautiful.

 

[green.pixel]

^ Why don't you rip to lossless ? Lack of storage maybe ?

On vinyl vs. CD, I agree, it's metaphysics...

 

[homerdog]

I buy vinyl exclusively, but it's not really a sound quality issue. I rip everything to MP3 for my iPod. It's also not a habit thing, I'm only 28. It's an overall aesthetic for me. I love huge album art. I love the weight and the smell. I love setting the needle in the groove. And I do think records sound beautiful.

How much of a PITA is it to go vinyl -> MP3 ?

 

[Gubbi]

I buy vinyl exclusively, but it's not really a sound quality issue.

Compared to modern volume compressed digital releases vinyl *does* offer better sound.

Vinyl records are a lower fidelity medium than 16bit PCM or even MP3s. However, the inherent physical limitations of vinyl necessitated RIAA equalization. This equialization means that low frequency tones are never crushed the way they are in modern releases.

Cheers

 

[Blazkowicz]

How much of a PITA is it to go vinyl -> MP3 ?

it's about the hassle of clicking a red, round shaped button?

 

[homerdog]

And letting the entire album play and either split and label the tracks manually or use something like Replay Music (maybe there's a decent free alternative?)? No biggie I know but not just 'click'.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I don't bother to chop my recordings into tracks. I just save them as sides. I have a nifty Numark portable turntable with a built in RIAA preamp and line level outputs right next to my PC. I just used Audacity to record one side at a time and compress with LAME. My iPod's only 30 GB so I keep to VBR ~250kbps. If I want a high quality listening experience at home I can just play the record itself.

 

[Scott_Arm]

On the other side, there are reasonable limits to the price tag at some point. 16000 € for a pair of B&O Beolab 5 speakers is just sick for example.

EDIT: this is some absolute top gear - http://www.raum-ton-kunst.de/index....&page=shop.browse&manufacturer_id=2&Itemid=63

Belt-driven CD-Player for 36900€, wow...

Ha ha ha, belt-driven CD-player. Hi Fi is really really really stupid a lot of the time. There is so much garbage out there. That said, if I had the 16000 €, I'd buy the Beolab 5 speakers. That's pretty much the pinnacle of audio reproduction, or maybe build a pair of Orion++ speakers. And I'd probably pair them with a pretty cheap CD player.

Really though, I'm dreaming, because I'll never be able to afford those speakers.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Compared to modern volume compressed digital releases vinyl *does* offer better sound.

Vinyl records are a lower fidelity medium than 16bit PCM or even MP3s. However, the inherent physical limitations of vinyl necessitated RIAA equalization. This equialization means that low frequency tones are never crushed the way they are in modern releases.

Cheers

Cool info. Didn't know that. I knew all about the problems with compressed dynamic ranges on new music, but didn't know about the RIAA equalization spec for vinyl.

 

[_xxx_]

Scott, it's not that crazy with the belt drive since it does indeed run smoother, but yeah it's not like something digital would care about that. The official PR-talk is that it runs so smoothly and vibration-free that it reduces the read failures significantly. The reality is, it's a all hand-built, tank-proof and very fine device which will survive us all - but still the price is simply insane.