"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

KKRT said:
About Forza pic, it was signed as a 'great Forza model', so i thought thats no lod version, but now have some doubts :p
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Yeah loosk more liek ingame car or replay car though IIRC they are both same in F3 and lower LOD.


I've talked about both, because You can see both there. In gameplay its just harder to catch an AI staying in place. I would have more examples but really dont have patience to check over 10k posts on GT board :p
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No problem.


I saw that, but i meant underhood modelling. Those engines via windshield are quite good modelled in both GT and Forza oraz even GT PSP.

I'll try to post more examples later, i dont have many time right now ;]
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Underhood engine is about the same in detail. I have already seen them as I have the game and did some mods sometime ago and so I have also loaded several cars into an editor so I've seen them in all kinds or rendering modes! :smile:

EDIT: Some random one from garage and previous car to. Nice that engine parts can also get deformed to a certain limit. But anyway they are 3D and this part is more OT as of now.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4229/shift1.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/826/shift2.jpg
 
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You know that cars in GT 5 are up to 400-500k polys and Prologue one's only to 200k. So there could be completely different LOD systems and thats why we saw difference between gameplays, replays and menu in demo build of GT 5 [or it could just be builds fault]

But left and right side cars are still in selection/view mode. Anyway looking at the GT5p replay shots show very obvious polygon edges around cooler fence, lamps etc. You wont wont find such hard edges due to much lower polygon count in promo shots (check big images that are not SSAA). Promo shots having car with highest LOD model.
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No, they still have edges, less for sure, but they're also from cars with more polys.
http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/gran-turismo-5-sema-2009-18mp-6.jpg
http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/gran-turismo-5-sema-2009-18mp-3.jpg

Still think that cars in Prologue have that same amount of polys in menu and in-game, but its hard to compare precisely. Question is if they really are 100-200k polys. Or rather 70-120k :p
BTW this screens are the best i could find ;\

Evo
Menu
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/3953881244_b2ca7ba52b_o.png

gameplay
http://i36.tinypic.com/33yrlme.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/3954374728_963bac9efb_o.png

Audi A8
menu
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3953103893_f8940fc035_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3953104201_ab350df7bd_o.png

gameplay
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/3954377016_8f00b12ffd_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3954377504_5e898a3771_o.png

Ferrari California
menu
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3953104973_068daca275_o.png

gameplay
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3953594715_5b231b6e64_o.png

===
This muscle car from Shift looks really good. I need to buy that game someday ;p
 
The quality of the model in a racing game will depend a lot on the source data.
Forza has always had quite variable quality. Some manufacturers provide ultra high quality reference models, some practically nothing. Some models are clearly upgraded Forza 2 models. They also use a lot of outsourcing companies - whereas GT's premium cars are all done in house.
For example the BMW pics in this batch are all exceptionally detailed, so I'd imagine they were reference models provided by BMW.
At the end of the day, it's a money vs time vs priorities trade off.

The same with the ferrari demo they showed at E3 this year, that'd easily have been several million polygons and must be a reference model - although they did mentioned how hard it was to get pictures of the door sills...
 
I need specifications of character final fantasy lightning.
few polygons is lightning?
Someone can help me? ;)
 
KKRT said:
You know that cars in GT 5 are up to 400-500k polys and Prologue one's only to 200k. So there could be completely different LOD systems and thats why we saw difference between gameplays, replays and menu in demo build of GT 5 [or it could just be builds fault]

Still think that cars in Prologue have that same amount of polys in menu and in-game, but its hard to compare precisely. Question is if they really are 100-200k polys. Or rather 70-120k :p
BTW this screens are the best i could find ;\
Click to expand...

Just saw this, photomode car model vs ingame car model for GT5.

v3zyn8.jpg

prfqo.jpg


from gt planet.

photo travel (custom build photo location) high spec model

photomode (circuit location) low spec model
Click to expand...
 
Necro on Reach models.

COPS N RAPPERS said:
30k seems like a high number, it's a believable number for some games but considering of how many soldiers are usually on screen in many halo games, i think the performance would drop quite a bit.

it does however mention the use of tessellation. (a feature that i think would give it the necessary boost in performance with using such high polys.)

Tessellation was used before in Halo wars, though it was entirely for terrain purposes, and i think that's where my money would be on for Halo reach.

[cut cut cut]
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Reach characters wear helmets most of the time so the tris count probably goes down outside of cinematics. It's not unreasonable to assume that scenes with heavily scripted camera angles feature characters with up to 30k tris.

And I highly doubt Bungie uses tessellation for characters. (and that's not because it wasn't Bungie who developed Halo Wars) That's because AFAIR tessellation happens before VS stage on Xbox 360 (not after as speced for DX11 cards) which means that by tessellating skinned characters you significantly increase the workload you put on your GPU. (assuming you skin in VS which is what most people do on X360) Tessellator found in 360 may work well for cars, terrain and static objects in general but won't be very useful for skinned objects.
 
Nebula said:
Yeah the quote at the end says it to (2 photomodes). Expected for ingame race to have lower polygon models than either photomode. Probably shaves off polys from the cockpit, rims (well rims change LOD once they start spinning) etc.
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Oh, so GT5 does the same thing as Forza 3 then - which caused a huge uproar.

Is the in game polygon count of GT5 car models more than F3?
 
Is the in game polygon count of GT5 car models more than F3?
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Without a doubt.

And about those screens it could be AI car and some LOD bug, we have to wait for the final game. It was quite strange, because every other shot from photomode [and we had them hundreds] looks rendered with highest possible LOD.
 
ConayR said:
And I highly doubt Bungie uses tessellation for characters. (and that's not because it wasn't Bungie who developed Halo Wars) That's because AFAIR tessellation happens before VS stage on Xbox 360 (not after as speced for DX11 cards) which means that by tessellating skinned characters you significantly increase the workload you put on your GPU. (assuming you skin in VS which is what most people do on X360) Tessellator found in 360 may work well for cars, terrain and static objects in general but won't be very useful for skinned objects.
Click to expand...

IIRC they only use tessellation for the water.
 
AlStrong said:
For such models, you'd want an LOD system in place. Once you've got polygons per pixel, you're really going to destroy the framerate.
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Of course it would, but Turn 10 (and their community guy on GAF) said that you would see the same hi fidelity models in game and instead we got quite low poly models not a whole lot more detailed than F2 and probably not as detailed as the in game models in PGR4.

Anyone estimate the average polycounts between the in game models in Forza 3 vs GT5? I wonder if Polyphony has offloaded some of the geometry processing to SPUs.
 
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(((interference))) said:
Of course it would, but Turn 10 (and their community guy on GAF) said that you would see the same hi fidelity models in game and instead we got quite low poly models not a whole lot more detailed than F2 and probably not as detailed as the in game models in PGR4.

Anyone estimate the average polycounts between the in game models in Forza 3 vs GT5? I wonder if Polyphony has offloaded some of the geometry processing to SPUs.
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One of the devs for PGR4 said something aboput 30-60k polys for a PGR4 car. Might be off but the post should be in this thread. But GT5 also switches models depeding on situation and cars besides yours will suffer the most (generally the case in other racers to).
 
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Reminder folks: Polygons. Not A vs B vs C .
(((interference))) said:
Of course it would, but Turn 10 (and their community guy on GAF) said that you would see the same hi fidelity models in game and instead we got quite low poly models not a whole lot more detailed than F2 and probably not as detailed as the in game models in PGR4.
Click to expand...

Unless it's an actual figure or technical, I wouldn't get too caught up in interpreting PR speak. "In-game" could easily be spun to mean when you put the game disc in the tray and load the game. Now you're "in-game", which will of course, include the show room. End of story. The tech threads aren't for debating PR truths/lies.
 
But anyway IMO polygon counting by eye is best leaved to the pros and that would be Laa-Yosh or a car modeler from some dev team. Anyway for reference Shift cars at highest LOD (LODA) are between 40-60k for exterior and 20-30k for interior (dashboard view). I am sure I got some pics up in here from Shift as reference.
 
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ConayR said:
And I highly doubt Bungie uses tessellation for characters. (and that's not because it wasn't Bungie who developed Halo Wars) That's because AFAIR tessellation happens before VS stage on Xbox 360 (not after as speced for DX11 cards) which means that by tessellating skinned characters you significantly increase the workload you put on your GPU. (assuming you skin in VS which is what most people do on X360) Tessellator found in 360 may work well for cars, terrain and static objects in general but won't be very useful for skinned objects.
Click to expand...
You could also:
skin + heavy duty VS stuff -> memexport-> tessel -> just interpolate in second VS

This way skinning and heavy duty VS stuff does not happen after tessel. And exporting the skinned vertex buffer is also good if you have plenty of dynamic lights (skinned characters need to be rendered to multiple shadow maps). Better to skin once and use the static memexport generated mesh. Same technique can of course be used in PC (stream out in DX10/11).
 
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