You're right, a conventional approach will have the same edge scenarios that plague polygon rasterization. By 'jaggies' I should have said 'corners' or somesuch. That said, I'm thinking that a pure CSG renderer can go exotic on AA method.
"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers
- Thread starter Farid
- Start date
Yes, definitely. You can average out the color of the 'cone' that your pixel is looking at. This should always solve edge issues in a satisfactory manner, imho. At least, that was my theory. Look forward to it getting shot down, but I definitely can already see that it was indeed a good learning exercise to design my own renderer, even if it had already been invented a thousand times
.COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
you know, i was wondering, does anyone know how many polygons dark sector's main character was?
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/...-sector-20080116015500261.html?page=mediaFull
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/...-sector-20080116015506011.html?page=mediaFull
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_dark_sector-7591-1.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_dark_sector-7830-5.html
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/...-sector-20080116015500261.html?page=mediaFull
http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/...-sector-20080116015506011.html?page=mediaFull
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_dark_sector-7591-1.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_dark_sector-7830-5.html
I think you're talking about this one, by Charles Loop and Scott Schaefer. The images shown seem to show good results, but unfortunately I'm not well-versed enough on the subject of tessellation to pick out the major flaws. The only one that jumps out at me is that their implementation only works for meshes composed of quads. Then of course there's the performance issue...the latest DX SDK has a sample that can run on DX11 hardware but I don't have any to test it on. Also I have no idea if their implementation would work on the 360's tessellator.
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I take it that the tessellator is not exposed in XNA.
We're lucky that they let us use shaders in XNA.
Does anyone know if the xbox360's tessellator is set-up limited because i seem to recall that the 360 polygon set-up limited is 500 million polygon/sec. So is this number inclusive of the tessellator? If not then how does the xbox360's tessellator operate and what is its limit.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
hmmmmm, i'm interested in that bayonetta model.
i'm impressed if that's the model they use in gameplay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnyRAWRYrrU
i'm impressed if that's the model they use in gameplay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnyRAWRYrrU
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probably more than GT4, seeing as those were only around 3 - 5k each
problem is time (and time = money) so while a next-gen GTA could have GT5 (200k polys)...it also takes them at least 8 - 10 weeks to build each car to that detail.
so while it might be possible, I dont see it happening, apart from very select "hero" cars maybe
Iron Tiger
Regular
GT cars take so long to build because they are based on real cars and will be judged on how close they look to the real thing. Anybody with experience could whip up a 200k poly car in considerably less time, if they're creating an original design. The problem is games like GTA have a lot of scenery to hold in memory, and a lot of geometry to draw with multiple cars, people, and complex environments. It just makes more sense to use simpler car models, especially when most of the time they'll be viewed from farther away than in a racing game.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
bayonetta polygons models up close.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469144909/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469144585/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469145971/sizes/o/in/photostream/
model created using ZBrush.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469145475/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3612741006/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3796762727/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3797579510/sizes/o/in/photostream/
character models look to be the same as DMC4 if not better, around 17k, weapons look 4 to 5k. character's faces are around 5 to 6k alone.
looks pretty decent.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469144909/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469144585/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469145971/sizes/o/in/photostream/
model created using ZBrush.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3469145475/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3612741006/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3796762727/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platinumgames/3797579510/sizes/o/in/photostream/
character models look to be the same as DMC4 if not better, around 17k, weapons look 4 to 5k. character's faces are around 5 to 6k alone.
looks pretty decent.
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not really, I regularly make car models for games, making cars from scratch is sometimes harder, depending on what you do. ie, a charger is quicker to make than say a ferrari enzo. if your game requires crazy designs, then you'll need time to realise them, often the designs start on paper too...so time really adds up.
I sometimes get cads or laser scan data for cars, and even with that its not a trivial task to model a car accurately AND quickly.
remember, 200k is a lot of polys...an intake will be rounder, means more time to smooth it out (anyone who uses subd for detailing can go get shot, always looks shit, ive seen far too many cars poorly modelled like that)
also, there is mapping on every piece because of occlusion maps, scratch maps etc...again, more detail, more time.
then you have car setups...in the DC/PS2 days you could get away with geometry deformation, these days people want peices falling off with substructure underneath for example, that has to be modelled, in 2 varients (broken/not broken) have to set up rotational/position nulls and usually make low-poly bounding boxes. then you have lights, setup nulls for each light location (flaring) then various lens models for broken (on and off) on, off etc
trust me, shit gets complex real fast. what used to take 2 weeks total in the dreamcast days (apps like softimage 3d didnt even have edge beveling back then, nor interactive subd surfaces, everything was manual) takes at least 4 - 6 weeks now, with much better tools.
the costs of these cars is getting high to the point where I charge more for making a small hatchback than it is to buy the real thing.
I'll agree with the numbers.
By the way that gun model is most probably from the cutscene & not the one used while in gameplay.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
DMC4's guns were almost the same (maybe a little less), i wouldn't expect nothing much dif though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLHWYw2Gu4
Most definitely not. 2-3k triangles at most.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
first off i was talking about the whole head as well as the face.:smile:
In most Japanese games the character's face is the star attraction and most definitely consumes a majority of polygons, from MGS4 ,SO4 ,NG ,NGS1 and 2,Ninja B ,and DMC4 to Bayonetta, and FF13.
anyways when exploring howmany polygons a model is we have to take into account the things we don't see that they model.
and those things I'm going point out.:smile:
inside of the mouth in most games have a teeth and tongue structure, In Dmc4's case usually a whole mouth interior is about 7 to 800 polys, with teeth being modeled in 3D, http://i38.tinypic.com/2lkp2kh.jpg
In bayonetta's case the human character models have a mouth structure both in cutscenes and during gameplay. http://i38.tinypic.com/acbll0.jpg
In DMC4 the ears had a decently round shape very similar to the ears used in bayonetta maybe a little less, which the number is unknown, (rough estimate i would have to say 100 polys for one whole ear 200 for two.) the eyes and lids in most Japanese games are the second thing most modeled in characters, though you wont see much of it used in the male characters, you will see it in the female characters, as goes with the lips.
this is a basic EYEBALL, 760 polygons for one 1,520 for two.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2s9vebt.jpg
Hair in most if not all Japanese games get modeled separately and overlaid on the scalp, the polygons differ from each hair style, ranging from 1,000 polys to a little over 3,200 in DMC4. (with Trish and Lady having the most in the game)
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COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
I work with graphics too, and the info wasn't for just you.
anyways, In new FF13 trailer, lightning appears to be 14 to 15k, with a majority of the polygons going to her head, hair and hands.
http://i37.tinypic.com/2nqv2qd.jpg
everyone else seems to have higher polys than lighting.
http://i36.tinypic.com/1t5vuc.jpg
Red head's necklace and jewelry looks back to normal, though a rather low polygon hand is holding her.
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_tgs09_final_fantasy_xiii_trailer-8579_en.html
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Hopefully they used Softimage. If they did they might do a case study and if so hopefully they are willing to give a decent amount of info unlike Team Ninja.
I doubt they would go into detail through any other medium. I doubt they would even talk about such things at GDC if they were giving a presentation.
I doubt they would go into detail through any other medium. I doubt they would even talk about such things at GDC if they were giving a presentation.