XNA, is it free ?

[a688]

It's not just that the processor is slow, it's constantly having to recompile code on the fly (the Code Morphing crap), which leads to a slow, AND very jerky system.

Actually, supposedly it only translates it once and keeps the translated code in memory. At least thats what they say. Anyways, I was just stating that it's possible. A lot more is involved with system speed than just the processor, and Intel has a lot more resources that Transmeta could ever hope for.

 

[Farid]

...sony and nintendo will all have thier exclusives but the one it hurts the most is sony as they are the ones with the lowest quality in house dev teams .

What?

Sony has Polyphony Digital, Insomniac, Naughty Dogs, Team Soho, Evolution Studios, Cambridge Studios, 989 Studios, SCEI, there's also the new founded Team Bondi, we can also count the exclusive publishing conctract with Guerilla...
And they are all far from being "low quality/No name" developers (especially PD, ND, Insomniac, SCEI).

MS OTOH, has Bungie, Digital Anvil, Rare, MSG and we can count Epic Games( exclusive publishing contract).
Bizarre creation, PAM, Lionhead, Digital Illusion CE (Dice) are not MS in-house dev team.

Sure it all boils down to personal tastes when it comes to choose which games are "better" than others, but saying Sony has the lowest quality in-house dev team is "streching it" a little, IMHO.
edit:And on an economical (sales) point of view (the most important) Sony in-house dev team are doing very well.

 

[Phil]

....especially, when considering what sales the games of those Sony 1st parties generated... Even the "flop" the Getaway generated sales in the millions.

 

[Farid]

....especially, when considering what sales the games of those Sony 1st parties generated... Even the "flop" the Getaway generated sales in the millions.

You posted before i finished editing my post.
When i read myself i saw that i forgot talking about the "more important", the "cash" $$$.

 

[Pepto-Bismol]

*cough* JAVA *cough* Kind of like .NET/JAVA all you need is a custom written piece of software for each machine that translates the code from a common runtime language into what the hardware can understand. This has been going on for a long time. In face the crusoe by transmeta actually translates code on the fly, interperting it into its own language that the processor can understand.

Well, it -- it looks like you've got everything figured out...

WARNING: The Following Makes Graphic References To Business Cents. Viewer Discretion Is Advised.

Okay smarty pants!! Here is Mr. Allard's real dilemma:

(Q) How do you architect code for past, present and future devices such that consumers are willing to purchase your product regardless of the platform they happen to own?

What would entice you to buy, for your next computer system, the same game I am playing on my two-year-old mobile? Ah ... now that one's got you thinking, hasn't it?

Regardless how Allard & Co. decide to "project" their software, one thing's for certain: XNA will become more and more economically unfeasible over time. If for nothing else, the menagerie of devices to which it is attempting pander is increasing.

 

[jvd]

Sony has Polyphony Digital, Insomniac, Naughty Dogs, Team Soho, Evolution Studios, Cambridge Studios, 989 Studios, SCEI, there's also the new founded Team Bondi, we can also count the exclusive publishing conctract with Guerilla...
And they are all far from being "low quality/No name" developers (especially PD, ND, Insomniac, SCEI).

Right . Where are the quality games from these companys . The only games recently that anyone will tell me they like are from naughty dog. But hey we will see next gen

 

[cybamerc]

jvd:

> Because devlopers who were only going to develop on the ps3 or
> gamecube 2 will now easily be able to port g ames to the xbox 2 .

Nonsense. Porting to and from different architectures won't be any easier. The only ones who benifit from XNA are developers porting from PC to Xbox or vice versa.

 

[jvd]

jvd:

> Because devlopers who were only going to develop on the ps3 or
> gamecube 2 will now easily be able to port g ames to the xbox 2 .

Nonsense. Porting to and from different architectures won't be any easier. The only ones who benifit from XNA are developers porting from PC to Xbox or vice versa.

I don't belive that is the case at all .

But it will become mre clear a time goes on

 

[Farid]

Sony has Polyphony Digital, Insomniac, Naughty Dogs, Team Soho, Evolution Studios, Cambridge Studios, 989 Studios, SCEI, there's also the new founded Team Bondi, we can also count the exclusive publishing conctract with Guerilla...
And they are all far from being "low quality/No name" developers (especially PD, ND, Insomniac, SCEI).

Right . Where are the quality games from these companys .

In this industry (and all others industry BTW), the quality products are the ones that sells.
And thoses Studios have pushed some Millions sellers.
OTOH i can give you a list of quality games that came from those studio, games such as, the WRC series, Ape Escape, Gran Turismo 3, Eyetoy play , Primal, Mark of Kri, Parapa the rapper, Socom, Ico, the Jak serie, the Rachet and Clank serie, Formula One serie, Sly Racoon that's only thoses i remember.

I don't understand why you think that Sony in houses devs are the worst of the industry (even on the subjective "quality" side).
Maybe you don't know their games or you're not intressted on the type of games that they do (besides they do almost all the spectrum of game's genre).

 

[jvd]

In this industry (and all others industry BTW), the quality products are the ones that sells

I disagree. Brittany spears dance game sold millions. Do you consider that a quality product ? How about those mary kate and ashly games for the game boy .

 

[Farid]

In this industry (and all others industry BTW), the quality products are the ones that sells

I disagree. Brittany spears dance game sold millions. Do you consider that a quality product ? How about those mary kate and ashly games for the game boy .

I don't think Britney's Dance Beat did sold millions, and if it did on a publisher point of view yes it will be a damn good (quality) product.

And btw that's not the point Jvd, you questioned the quality (gameplay speaking) of the titles comming from Sony in-houses devs, i gave you a list of "quality" games coming from thoses in-house devs and asked you what makes you think that Sony in-house devs are the worst in-house dev.

edit:engrish.

 

[cthellis42]

My, it's funny when the arguements are illogical and yet the counter-arguements are wrong. On a matter which HAS no functional arguement points, since the initial premise set it up as 100% personal opinion anyway.

 

[Farid]

My, it's funny when the arguements are illogical and yet the counter-arguements are wrong. On a matter which HAS no functional arguement points, since the initial premise set it up as 100% personal opinion anyway.

Touché

More seriously the argument was that Sony have/haven't in-house devs that creates enough "quality titles" for appealling a gamer with exclusive titles and therefore selling the console.
I was just saying that the quality of a game is "subjective", "relative",
and that the exclusives games that sells consoles are thoses that people likes... Thoses they buy.
High ranked games never sold a console, just look at PS2/DC back in 2000/01.

 

[jvd]

I don't think Britney's Dance Beat did sold millions, and if it did on a publisher point of view yes it will be a damn good (quality) product.

But I'm not a developer .

 

[Fafalada]

Because devlopers who were only going to develop on the ps3 or gamecube 2 will now easily be able to port g ames to the xbox 2

Care to explain how PS3 -> XB2 ports will be made easier if XNA doesn't exist on Sony's platform?

Unless you're privy to some information noone else here has about Sony becoming an XNA licensee in the near future.

 

[aaaaa00]

It's not just that the processor is slow, it's constantly having to recompile code on the fly (the Code Morphing crap), which leads to a slow, AND very jerky system.

Actually, supposedly it only translates it once and keeps the translated code in memory. At least thats what they say. Anyways, I was just stating that it's possible. A lot more is involved with system speed than just the processor, and Intel has a lot more resources that Transmeta could ever hope for.

It doesn't appear to work very well.

There's a 28MB in-memory translated code cache they keep. It works ok once you get settled into one particular app, but try to multitask, and the machine just crumbles.

It's like it's struggling to JIT apps as they come in and and displace the code from the apps already in the translation cache.

The latest update persists the translation cache to disk, but it doesn't really seem to help a lot with overall system responsiveness.

Given the choice to do it over, I would have just gone with the Centrino version of my TabletPC. Seriously.

 

[V3]

Alright, none of you seems to know if XNA is free or not.

But most of you think its free.

From what I gather about cost reduction and stuff, I thought its free as well, but... somehow I got a feeling, in the future consumers are going to pay for it one way or another.

 

[jvd]

Because devlopers who were only going to develop on the ps3 or gamecube 2 will now easily be able to port g ames to the xbox 2

Care to explain how PS3 -> XB2 ports will be made easier if XNA doesn't exist on Sony's platform?

Unless you're privy to some information noone else here has about Sony becoming an XNA licensee in the near future.

I never said games that were already developed on the ps3 would be ported easier .

I'm saying games that were going to be made just for the ps3 may now be made for the xbox 2 , pc , ps3 with greater ease than before .

 

[cybamerc]

V3:

> Alright, none of you seems to know if XNA is free or not.

I've already explained how it works. The tools cost money.



jvd:

> I'm saying games that were going to be made just for the ps3 may now
> be made for the xbox 2 , pc , ps3 with greater ease than before .

Remove PC or Xbox 2 from the equation and it's the same work as always.

 

[ERP]

OK so I haven't talked to MS about XNA since it was called something else entirely and it wasn't a cross platform initiative.

However the impression that I have is that it has very little to do with ports at all. It's about making development move faster (primarilly on MS platforms). One of the primary challenges facing developers is being able to build content sooner, XNA is a set of tool to allow that to happen on PC/XBox2. It's relatively easy to see how this could lead to developers using MS platforms as the primary SKU, porting to the other platforms.

Now I'm not saying this is definitely MS's "plan", but this is what I read into what was communicated to me, before XNA was ever announced.