XNA, is it free ?
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As with all middlewear, there are usually some kind of licensing costs involved... I imagine some of XNA will be "gratuity" to draw developers in more, but for some of the handier tools there will probably be a string of some sort attached. (Whether monetary or otherwise.)
Of course if XNA ever because a de facto standard, we could look forward to Windows-like pricing schemes!
Of course if XNA ever because a de facto standard, we could look forward to Windows-like pricing schemes!
DudeWheresMyXbox
Newcomer
XNA isn't as simple as a single middleware package for sale. It's the name MS chose for their initiative/strategy towards future-generation gaming on PC, Xbox and any other platform running on MS software. There's a bunch of different things that MS will be releasing under the XNA banner, of which the first items are:
1. Xbox Live dev tools for Windows game developers. Historically, tools and SDKs for PC game devs from Microsoft are free, so this shouldn't be any different.
2. A common controller usable on both PC and Xbox, with the same set of input APIs being used on each platform. Note that the announcement didn't specify whether this was talking about the controller for the current Xbox or a future one.
3. Release of popular Xbox dev tools like PIX (graphics performance) and XACT (real-time audio auditioning) for PC game developers.
More info at: http://www.microsoft.com/xna/
1. Xbox Live dev tools for Windows game developers. Historically, tools and SDKs for PC game devs from Microsoft are free, so this shouldn't be any different.
2. A common controller usable on both PC and Xbox, with the same set of input APIs being used on each platform. Note that the announcement didn't specify whether this was talking about the controller for the current Xbox or a future one.
3. Release of popular Xbox dev tools like PIX (graphics performance) and XACT (real-time audio auditioning) for PC game developers.
More info at: http://www.microsoft.com/xna/
If XNA is Xbox and PC only, they should be giving it away shouldn't they?
So that developers use it rather than cross-platform middleware like Renderware?
It would be a good strategy to lock developers into an Xbox-only solution.
By the same token, if XNA only produces code good for one console, I would think most developers wouldn't use it, since most of them are going to hedge their bets.
So that developers use it rather than cross-platform middleware like Renderware?
It would be a good strategy to lock developers into an Xbox-only solution.
By the same token, if XNA only produces code good for one console, I would think most developers wouldn't use it, since most of them are going to hedge their bets.
wco81 said:
Thats not how i see xna at all .
Xna can be a great help to those who only want to dev pc and xbox . But it will a greater tool for those who want to dev for ps3 , xbox 2 , gamecube 2 , pc . .
That is what ms is trying to do .
They are saying hey
If you use that with little added work you can program the game for the ps3 but xna will make porting it to the xbox2 very easy and also for it to be ported to the xbox2 .
Ms doesn't need as many exclusives as it just needs good games .
Pepto-Bismol
Newcomer
wco81 said:
Exactly! Exclusives leverage a machine's strengths while hiding its weaknesses, something you can't do cross-platform without spawning some kind of evil hybrid.
WARNING: The Following Has Been Rated R for Microsoft Proponents
Alright, I'll admit: I'm not entirely convinced about all this XNA stuff. "Projecting" software onto innumerable pieces of hardware doesn't even sound remotely feasible. As I understand it, computer chips and other devices are speaking their own language -- and somehow XNA is going to tell them ALL what to do?! Please!
This sounds like WebTV -- err Sisyphus and the stone.
Apparently, transporting a concept to a smattering of consoles (on time) has proven to be difficult enough, let alone trying to blanket most of the digital domain with it ... and that's the easy part! What's mind numbing is making them all interoperable -- like my two-year-old mobile and tomorrow's Xbox -- knowing that each has its own strengths and weaknesses. :?
Hello. This is my first post on these boards. I´ve been watching here for a while but I thougt I´d join the discussion. I may not be a developer, but I´m interested in the industry and have some basic knowlege about programming and hardware.
Many people seem to think about xna as a world domination strategy including some developement tools from microsoft, but if we forget the usual suspicion that surfaces every time microsoft makes a move and read the faq and press release about xna it says that it is a industry wide initiative between middleware developers, microsoft and tool makers to make it easier, and cheaper, to make games. Not just microsoft tools, but renderware, unreal engine etc, by creating a common standard for all game developing software. I hope it is what it says.
I think the current generation have shown a few things.
1: Games gets delayed.
2: Few original games.
3: It´s tough for small developers.
This is propably going to get worse in the next generation and gamers will be stuck with big, commercial games from EA, sequels and crappy movie licence games. If xna can help to keep the costs down smaller developers may get their games to the market and more publishers will release games with original content, not risking a fortune. Hopefully we will see more games like ico.
As a gamer hope xna gives me more original games and an industry that´s more about creativity than having a big comany backing your finances.
Many people seem to think about xna as a world domination strategy including some developement tools from microsoft, but if we forget the usual suspicion that surfaces every time microsoft makes a move and read the faq and press release about xna it says that it is a industry wide initiative between middleware developers, microsoft and tool makers to make it easier, and cheaper, to make games. Not just microsoft tools, but renderware, unreal engine etc, by creating a common standard for all game developing software. I hope it is what it says.
I think the current generation have shown a few things.
1: Games gets delayed.
2: Few original games.
3: It´s tough for small developers.
This is propably going to get worse in the next generation and gamers will be stuck with big, commercial games from EA, sequels and crappy movie licence games. If xna can help to keep the costs down smaller developers may get their games to the market and more publishers will release games with original content, not risking a fortune. Hopefully we will see more games like ico.
As a gamer hope xna gives me more original games and an industry that´s more about creativity than having a big comany backing your finances.
Pepto-Bismol said:Alright, I'll admit: I'm not entirely convinced about all this XNA stuff. "Projecting" software onto innumerable pieces of hardware doesn't even sound remotely feasible. As I understand it, computer chips and other devices are speaking their own language -- and somehow XNA is going to tell them ALL what to do?! Please!
*cough* JAVA *cough* Kind of like .NET/JAVA all you need is a custom written piece of software for each machine that translates the code from a common runtime language into what the hardware can understand. This has been going on for a long time. In face the crusoe by transmeta actually translates code on the fly, interperting it into its own language that the processor can understand.
wco81:
> So that developers use it rather than cross-platform middleware like Renderware?
XNA is not middleware. XNA is a development initiative (read: marketing initiative) which encompasses a bunch of different technologies (which already exist and are already available to developers). Some of these technologies, like Visual Studio, you will have to pay for - as you have always had to. Others, such as Live, you will have to be approved for.
jvd:
> But it will a greater tool for those who want to dev for ps3 , xbox 2 ,
> gamecube 2 , pc . .
No. XNA is largely irrelevant for console developers. Especially those who develop for non-M$ platforms for which XNA is not available.
> So that developers use it rather than cross-platform middleware like Renderware?
XNA is not middleware. XNA is a development initiative (read: marketing initiative) which encompasses a bunch of different technologies (which already exist and are already available to developers). Some of these technologies, like Visual Studio, you will have to pay for - as you have always had to. Others, such as Live, you will have to be approved for.
jvd:
> But it will a greater tool for those who want to dev for ps3 , xbox 2 ,
> gamecube 2 , pc . .
No. XNA is largely irrelevant for console developers. Especially those who develop for non-M$ platforms for which XNA is not available.
jvd said:
Which is your perogative - but you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you M$ gives a rats ass about anything but themselves. None of their technology will be any good for platforms other than their own, and they have no intention of making it so.
The easier and more attractive it is to make X2 titles the better.
Also I don't imagine the architectures are similar enough for any of the tools and technology to be vaguely portable.
P4-Fan said:
It supports anything you plug a compiler into it for. It's frequently used for PS2 development already, for one thing. The biggest loss is the integrated debugger. M$ can fix that for themselves though...
a688 said:
Which is one of the reasons why the Transmeta is one of the worst performing processors I've ever had the displeasure of using.
It's not just that the processor is slow, it's constantly having to recompile code on the fly (the Code Morphing crap), which leads to a slow, AND very jerky system.
I bought a TabletPC that uses a 1 ghz Transmeta chip and has 768 MB RAM, and my god, it feels 10x slower than the exact same Centrino model at 1 ghz.
I don't even get the benefit of enhanced battery life, because the Centrino is nearly as good with power.
Transmeta sucks. Avoid it.
It is my perogative and I still disagree. I believe it is you who are living in cuckoo land .
Ms doesn't give a rats ass about anything but themselves . Which is exactly why xna will help developers develop on all systems . Because devlopers who were only going to develop on the ps3 or gamecube 2 will now easily be able to port g ames to the xbox 2 . ms , sony and nintendo will all have thier exclusives but the one it hurts the most is sony as they are the ones with the lowest quality in house dev teams .
jvd said:
Huh?!?! It was ok up to that point............... Again... HUH?!?! I for "in-house" you only mean the Sony studios, then maybe yes. But "exclusives" go beyond in-house teams. What do u consider Naughty Dog, Polyphony, and all those first party devs that are exclusive to Sony?
Compared to what MS can brag about... Halo alone won't really make up for the loads of good first party games Ninty and Sony have.
