Xbox360, so where the hell is the AA?

Bill said:
I notice several of the people here are judging off kiosks.

The kiosks were very unimpressive compared to the full system, as one who's played both.
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why is that? The screen used with the kiosks are vastly superior to the ones 90% of the people own over here in PAL land. We're talking fixed resolution lcds here, not an interlaced output that varies in perception depending on how you calibrate contrast/colour saturation and viewing distance.
 
Guden Oden said:
...Next xmas, games will be out for x360 that will put these to shame, and the ones the christmas after that will crush the launch titles and make them look like dog crap in comparison. Just you wait.
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But thats the case for every console like you already pointed out. With launch games you can see the basic power of one console. Sure the games will look (much) nicer but the question is how much and will that have to do with "unlocking" more potential or just better understandment of how to program it.
 
Phil said:
why is that? The screen used with the kiosks are vastly superior to the ones 90% of the people own over here in PAL land. We're talking fixed resolution lcds here, not an interlaced output that varies in perception depending on how you calibrate contrast/colour saturation and viewing distance.
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Well, they seemed to have terrible demo's. I know COD2 looked pretty bad, where every review says it looks great as well as online videos show it looking great.

Also, the most graphically impressive games like PGR3 weren't on the kiosk.

I mean they had a crappy Kameo level, crappy King Kong level, which is probably a crap game anyway, and a crappy COD2 level. Believe me I was very unimpressed with the kiosk too.

I've only played Perfect Dark Zero (bought) and PGR3 (rented) at home. Both are more impressive than anything on the kiosk. PGR3 by a ton.

Plus, I only have a 27" CRT non-HDTV. But I'd still say playing at home on the bigger screen beats that little 23" LCD.
 
Phil said:
why is that? The screen used with the kiosks are vastly superior to the ones 90% of the people own over here in PAL land. We're talking fixed resolution lcds here, not an interlaced output that varies in perception depending on how you calibrate contrast/colour saturation and viewing distance.
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the LCDs at walmart and ebgames kiosks are horrible horrible quality. Trust me when I say, comparing it to my HDTV the difference in graphics is like night and day.
 
Bill:

I see what you mean, but that's not a problem of the kiosks but the software that is being run on them. I can't vouche for the CoD2 demo I've seen played in the kiosk and how representative it is to the final game, but as I said, I did notice the lack of anti-aliasing (which IMO as I said, isn't an issue given it's not bad at that resolution). Having aliasing on a 480i/p display is another thing though.

As for my impressions of CoD2: I must say I found it very underwhelming - not because of the anti-aliasing - but rather the art-direction that is IMO too PC background flavoured. To be more specific, the game looks very low polygon (houses are very blocky) and sharp edges but boast high resolution textures and bump-mapping. I'd rather prefer a high polygon look with less emphasis on high quality textures and bump mapping, or simply more emphasis on air/wind effects like seen in the MGS4 demonstration. IMO, when you start to play around with sun glare, wind effects and a much more sophisticated lighing system, you can get away with worse textures and less bump mapping without the player even noticing (because the player won't see the those things as clearly because the wind is too strong or the sun is shining in his direction bluring his field of vision). This is what I'm expecting from next-generation games. All IMO of course.
 
Bill said:
crappy King Kong level, which is probably a crap game anyway
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actually King Kong is a blast from start to finish, a great game by any measure, very fun and scary at the same time. I haven't played the x360 version, but the GFX look extremely good, if you haven't played Kong on xbox try out the 360 version it's a great game.
 
Bill said:
I'm not sure I wouldn't mind all games being rendered that way. Lets face it, it decreases the graphics strain, enabling better visuals. Yet upscaled to 720P would still be worlds better than 640X480.

PS3 will be forced to follow suit or be at a disadvantage if that becomes the norm.

Also, I understand all about the predicated tiling. I just find it odd that at least first parties couldn't or didn't implement this in launch titles. Sure they didn't have final hardware, but couldn't they have planned ahead? I guess maybe not.

I wonder if the 576P+2XAA will become the norm, although not what MS intended? I think it sounds good to me.
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Yeah, doesn't sound bad to me either. Considering what was done with 480p the last generation, I'm not so sure that 576p + 2xAA/AF is a bad tradeoff. Also, considering the early life of the system, I'm pretty thrilled that the games are looking as good as they are. I mean does anyone remember PS2 launch? GT2000? Can we say PS1 + mip mapping? The Xbox launch is, IMO, not a good comparison point, because the componenets were extremely easy to program for in comaprison. Straight up single threaded, off the shelf CPU design that developers had been using for 2+ years (x86, mmx) + geforce 3 arch.

edit: IMO, I would much rather have games that run at lower res (with some AA) and pack a shitload (the technical term) of effects in, maximizing the graphical subsystem to the fullest, than a game that can run 1920*1080 on high-end hardware with fewer graphical details. Look at what gamecube did with Resident Evil 4. 480p, but damn it packed in a lot into those pixels. My computer did not have anything nearly as impressive at the time, imo. PS: argument is for optimization possible on closed hardware, not PC vs console :) I love my pc to death.
 
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Johnny Awesome said:
Yes you claims ARE highly suspect.
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Not really.

The EDRAM is, I guess, mostly for AA, or that's one of the big benefits, the other being bandwidth savings.

The fact launch titles are using spotty AA is just not cool at all. Remember this is one third of the GPU we're talking about. We should at least get some dang AA. Even then it arguably wouldn't be worth it, but we should at least get that!

And from what devs have hinted at here, predicated tiling is apparantly not necessarily trivial as a performance hit.
 
Phil said:
I'd rather prefer a high polygon look with less emphasis on high quality textures and bump mapping, or simply more emphasis on air/wind effects like seen in the MGS4 demonstration. .
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You have hit the nail on the head. I have noticed that many of the PS3 screenshots shown have a high polygon/high lighting emphasis with not as much texture or mapping work as the X360. It just seems to look better and more realistic
 
Agisthos said:
You have hit the nail on the head. I have noticed that many of the PS3 screenshots shown have a high polygon/high lighting emphasis with not as much texture or mapping work as the X360. It just seems to look better and more realistic
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I disagree, just as I disagreed with people who thought MGS3 looked great. It looked fugly because it had low quality textures and no mapping on objects. Tastes differ I guess, and it's a good thing that XBOX360 and PS3 appeal to different tastes. I very much prefer the detail I saw in the Gears of War E3 demos to the MGS4 demo.
 
Bill said:
The fact launch titles are using spotty AA is just not cool at all. Remember this is one third of the GPU we're talking about. We should at least get some dang AA. Even then it arguably wouldn't be worth it, but we should at least get that!
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That would be a very good comment indeed..

..if the launch titles didn't have some dang AA.

:rolleyes:
 
CoD2 is FSAAx4, 1280x720, 60fps.

Even althought it is not extremely impressive from a technical point of view, it is quite relevant as we are not able to achieve that quality in a beefy PC.
You can check the pictures in teamxbox.

No AA when split screen. No AA in transparencies.
Not a lot of AF though. Maybe x4, hard to say.

BTW: eDRAM is not just for FSAA.
 
Nope.

Click on "next" from your link (IGN) and that one is FSAAx4. For example.

Are both from the final build?

Shit, 1 week for checking it with my own eyes.
Maybe FSAA is disabled in some heavy scenarios? I don't know.

Anyone with the game and HDTV can enlighten us?
 
DarkRage said:
Nope.

Click on "next" from your link (IGN) and that one is FSAAx4. For example.

Are both from the final build?

Shit, 1 week for checking it with my own eyes.
Maybe FSAA is disabled in some heavy scenarios? I don't know.

Anyone with the game and HDTV can enlighten us?
Click to expand...

Click next one more time...
 
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