Xbox VGA Solution

[Thowllly]

I am fairly sure that the only 60Hz signal outputted by the PS2 is NTSC. However if there are any PAL60 PS2 games out there (I have seen none) someone please pipe up.

There are plenty of PAL60 games out there. Here are some of those I have played:

Tekken 4
DOA something
Sky odyssey.
...uh, that's the only ones I can remember ATM among the games I have played, but I know there are plenty more...

Slightly OT, but in another tread I claimed that the official name for Pal60 is PAL-M. That's not entirely true. PAL-M does run at 60Hz, but it uses a 3.6MHz color carrier (the frequency usually used by NTSC), while PAL60 uses the 4.4MHz color carrier that standard PAL uses...

 

[Ug Lee]

Are you sure they're actually PAL60 and not NTSC?


Re: PAL M - http://www.alkenmrs.com/video/standards.html

 

[Thowllly]

Are you sure they're actually PAL60 and not NTSC?

I think Sky Odyssey might use NTSC or PAL-M. The others I'm not sure about...

Maybe someone with lots of 60Hz games made for the PAL marked could help me out here. Use a composite cable while playing the 60Hz games. If some games turn black and white in 60Hz mode, while others don’t, then you have a TV that don’t support 3.6Mhz color carrier, and those games who lose color are NTSC or PAL-M while the ones that don’t lose color are PAL60. If no games lose color then you either have a TV that supports 3.6Mhz color or all the games are PAL60. And of course, if all the games lose color then your TV doesn’t support 3.6Mhz color and all the games are NTSC or PAL-M…

I read that 99% of all PAL TVs support PAL60, while ‘only’ 75% of all PAL TVs support NTSC. It should be trivially easy to program the PS2 RAMDAC to output PAL60 (just decrease the number of lines in a field by 52), so I don't see why they shouldn't use that…

Slightly OT: While searching around the internet to find out more about this, I found a forum where ppl said that there have been several incidents where PAL TV’s have been fucked up by the game Tekken4. After playing that game for a while the TVs colors get fucked up, and the corruption lasts long after you had stopped playing the game. The really interesting part was that this only happened if you played the game in 50Hz mode, not if you played in 60Hz!

 

[Ug Lee]

I've got a few 60Hz PAL PS2 games, I will test them out later tonight on my spare TV - it doesn't auto-switch between PAL and NTSC so I'll be able to find out for sure.

Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier...

 

[Thowllly]

I've got a few 60Hz PAL PS2 games, I will test them out later tonight on my spare TV - it doesn't auto-switch between PAL and NTSC so I'll be able to find out for sure.

That’s great!
So the TV has a manual switch that selects PAL or NTSC? I've never encountered such a TV, so I never considered that to be a way to find out... doh!

 

[Ug Lee]

heh...I'm not testing out anything. I just realised that I have given my PS2 to a friend to borrow for the week. doh.

Yep the TV is 51cm Sony Triniton, my old gaming warrior for many years until my upgrade. It has a manual switch between PAL and NTSC. A very good test subject indeed.

 

[Ug Lee]

In light of my inability to test it out right now, I've just referred to the GS user doc and it says that the only frequency the GS supports in PAL mode is 50Hz (49.76).

 

[Thowllly]

In light of my inability to test it out right now, I've just referred to the GS user doc and it says that the only frequency the GS supports in PAL mode is 50Hz (49.76).

yeah, but I'm pretty sure that that is actually not entirely true. I think it is actually programmable, so you can make any screen format you want. Is there not a PS2 dev nearby that can help out here?

 

[London Geezer]

WELL, since some pal ps2 games have a 60hz option i would think that would not be entirely true.

my guess is that its programmable otherwise there would be no games at all with a 60hz option....

 

[archie4oz]

Ug... Those are just presets. There's no 720P setting either, but you can get the GS to output it...

 

[Ug Lee]

Thanks for the knowledge, Archie.

 

[Thowllly]

Ug... Those are just presets. There's no 720P setting either, but you can get the GS to output it...

Yeah, thanks Archie!

 

[Ug Lee]

My inquisitive mind continues to churn -

Wouldn't an NTSC output be required for PAL PS2 games (Tekken 4 and Getaway) to output 480p? Or would PAL60 suffice?

Damn I wish I had my PS2 back so I could test this out.

 

[London Geezer]

well, i still have to try it out, but from the manual, the European version of The Getaway outputs at 525p when in progressive scan........ i guess they'll change that to 480p for the American version....

still, 525p should be a lot more detailed than 480p....well maybe not A LOT, but sharper anyway...

not only that but the game is just as fast in PAL mode as it is in NTSC mode... or the difference is VERY minimal... either that or my brain isn't working properly...

 

[Thowllly]

My inquisitive mind continues to churn -

Wouldn't an NTSC output be required for PAL PS2 games (Tekken 4 and Getaway) to output 480p? Or would PAL60 suffice?

Damn I wish I had my PS2 back so I could test this out.

I think 480p might be a NTSC format, but I think there also is a progressive PAL format. I just read about a DVD-player that supported it. But again it's an unofficial format, like PAL60.

 

[Ug Lee]

480p is an NTSC standard.

I'm also very sure that PAL PS2 games like Sky Oddyssey, VF4, Ready 2 Rumble Round 2 etc are NTSC 60Hz.

Damnit where's a PAL dev when you need one?

 

[maskrider]

well, i still have to try it out, but from the manual, the European version of The Getaway outputs at 525p when in progressive scan........ i guess they'll change that to 480p for the American version....

still, 525p should be a lot more detailed than 480p....well maybe not A LOT, but sharper anyway...

not only that but the game is just as fast in PAL mode as it is in NTSC mode... or the difference is VERY minimal... either that or my brain isn't working properly...

525p and 480p can be regarded as the same in a simplified sense as 480p means 480 active horizontal lines progressive and 525p means 525 lines including 480 active lines and other inactive lines progressive (e.g. front/back porch, sync).

Similar case in 625p and 576p, just depends on the way you want to call it.

 

[London Geezer]

well, i still have to try it out, but from the manual, the European version of The Getaway outputs at 525p when in progressive scan........ i guess they'll change that to 480p for the American version....

still, 525p should be a lot more detailed than 480p....well maybe not A LOT, but sharper anyway...

not only that but the game is just as fast in PAL mode as it is in NTSC mode... or the difference is VERY minimal... either that or my brain isn't working properly...

525p and 480p can be regarded as the same in a simplified sense as 480p means 480 active horizontal lines progressive and 525p means 525 lines including 480 active lines and other inactive lines progressive (e.g. front/back porch, sync).

Similar case in 625p and 576p, just depends on the way you want to call it.

REALLY?! oh thats weird... why the have the additional 45 lines then? i thought it would be like the difference between PAL and NTSC where PAL is slower but sharper... oh well... still have to try it out tho so we'll see, i've heard progressive scan on The Getaway doesnt work properly... or that it gives weird images or something like that... has anyone tried it yet?

 

[maskrider]

well, i still have to try it out, but from the manual, the European version of The Getaway outputs at 525p when in progressive scan........ i guess they'll change that to 480p for the American version....

still, 525p should be a lot more detailed than 480p....well maybe not A LOT, but sharper anyway...

not only that but the game is just as fast in PAL mode as it is in NTSC mode... or the difference is VERY minimal... either that or my brain isn't working properly...

525p and 480p can be regarded as the same in a simplified sense as 480p means 480 active horizontal lines progressive and 525p means 525 lines including 480 active lines and other inactive lines progressive (e.g. front/back porch, sync).

Similar case in 625p and 576p, just depends on the way you want to call it.

REALLY?! oh thats weird... why the have the additional 45 lines then? i thought it would be like the difference between PAL and NTSC where PAL is slower but sharper... oh well... still have to try it out tho so we'll see, i've heard progressive scan on The Getaway doesnt work properly... or that it gives weird images or something like that... has anyone tried it yet?

Not weird, 480p only mention the active lines in the video, it is always 525p at the analog interface for the common 480p standard. Same case for 1080i and 720p (or 1125i and 750p accordingly).

There are a couple of things in those inactive periods , e.g. close captioning, wide screen flag, VBI data and the sync pulse and etc, but they are not really relevant to game consoles.

PAL progressive is 576p (or 625p if you include the inactive lines).