XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Davros]

Everything you said amounts to "aww just give them more money ... give them more money ... they need more money ... just give them more money".

Agreed, its the games are special and need to live totally outside of the conditions imposed on other products argument. Why er becuse they dont degrade, er because they are an experience, er because they dont have the same number of revenue streams as movies
Since you seem to be all about fairness brasnial Don't developers deserve a percentage of the profits from secondhand sales when the profit is a negative number

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I liked the digs that the guy threw at Sony:

Sounds legit to me

Sony delivered a game sharing solution.
Microsoft did not.

Criticising is easy, delivering solutions is not.

 

[zupallinere]

Agreed, its the games are special and need to live totally outside of the conditions imposed on other products argument. Why er becuse they dont degrade, er because they are an experience, er because they dont have the same number of revenue streams as movies

Well their value does degrade over time in the same way that cars driving off a car dealer lot degrade in value. I assume scratches and so forth will keep most 3rd hand sales to a minimum ( I don't know how good the coating is on MS discs )

They are an experience, like a very long movie, interactive one, but knowledge of the plot etc can again over time erode value.

Don't have the same number of revenue streams well correct but increasingly DLC, 2nd screen etc. will allow publishers to recoup.

The value proposition for the average consumer ( TV/NFL watching types ) just isn't there for the MS version of DRM. In exchange for giving up a right to resell what has been bought or the ability to do so with no restrictions the average consumer gets ... to not have to swap disks, to enjoy "family share" plan that wasn't properly advanced, ... the ability to download ones own game at a friends house ? I'm not seeing the value here.

Another way to see it is "I could sell my 360 games why can't I sell my Xbox 1 games... and why should I pay an extra 100 bucks for the privilege of not doing something I could do before"

Used games are an issue to one extent or another but in all honesty if it is such a problem there are plenty of lawyers on staff in the whole of the gaming industry just take gamestop to court and see what happens.

 

[zupallinere]

Don't developers deserve a percentage of the profits from secondhand sales

I'd like to see that. Maybe publishers should make that stipulation when they make deals with Gamestop and the like.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Don't developers deserve a percentage of the profits from secondhand sales when the profit is a negative number

Should the same apply to artists producing paintings? How about movies? Books? Sculptors? Musicians?

I'm not disagreeing, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Should the same apply to artists producing paintings? How about movies? Books? Sculptors? Musicians?

I'm not disagreeing, but I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

NOT IN THIS THREAD!

 

[eastmen]

I love it. All the people crying about DRM and check ins and used games are now back peddling when they see all the innovative features we are loosing to gain back antiquated features.

We lost a good thing in the family sharing and its a sad day.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I love it. All the people crying about DRM and check ins and used games are now back peddling when they see all the innovative features we are loosing to gain back antiquated features.

Nobody was crying about DRM on digital purchases. Nobody. Microsoft's proposed policy looked good.

We lost a good thing in the family sharing and its a sad day.

Actually, we knew little about specifics of the proposed implmentation. I.e. can you tell me:

• Is there a time limit on how long family members can play for?
• What happens if somebody is playing a game and you want to play?
• What happens if your console hasn't been online for 24hrs?
• Can you change your 10 family members, if so how/when?
• Are all games in the shared library or only some?
• Are there any limitations as to who can be considered a family member?
• How many of the 10 family members can be playing different games simultaneously?

When Microsoft were asked this, they couldn't or wouldn't answer. The mechanics of the implementation is critical to its usefulness and appeal.

If they truly believe it was great, they shouldn't have caved. Actually, if they truly believe it was great, they wouldn't have caved. If you have confidence in your product, you don't add user replaceable batteries (Apple), or card slots (Apple) or flash on your mobile devices (Apple). You let people vote with their wallets. If your produce is truly better, folks will realise.

 

[eastmen]

yes you all were because the discs were digtal purchases just on a medium to reduce downloads

 

[Deleted member 11852]

yes you all were because the discs were digtal purchases just on a medium to reduce downloads

A disc is a retail purchase. Microsoft chose to implement an arbitrary software limitation to render the value of that tangible purchase equal to that of a non-transferrable intangible purchase.

People are used too, and therefore accepting, that digital purchases are almost never transferrable. People are not used to, and therefore not accepting, of tangible retail products not being transferrable. Particularly when the value of the item has dropped, but the price has not in a way commensurate to the loss in value.

 

[deathindustrial]

yes you all were because the discs were digital purchases just on a medium to reduce downloads

You could say the same about any physical medium used for transporting data around.

"LPs are just medium to reduce the distance you have to travel to see gigs."

Their choice of implementation on how a disc behaves is irrelevant - it certainly does not have to work that way and obviously did not since they have back pedalled on that limitation already.

The issue here is that they are trying to change the rules of ownership in the console realm with (arguably) little to no benefit to their customers.

Cheers

 

[function]

A disc is a retail purchase. Microsoft chose to implement an arbitrary software limitation to render the value of that tangible purchase equal to that of a non-transferrable intangible purchase.

People are used too, and therefore accepting, that digital purchases are almost never transferrable. People are not used to, and therefore not accepting, of tangible retail products not being transferrable. Particularly when the value of the item has dropped, but the price has not in a way commensurate to the loss in value.

Indeed. All video games since the download age can be seen as digital copies on physical media to prevent the need for downloads. Everything from PS2 and Xbox 1 could have been delivered over the information super highway.

Preventing private sale, preventing free lending, preventing free gifting, and having a 24 hour check-in-or-global-kill "feature" having nothing to do with "saving on downloads" or being "digital copies"; important points being continually, purposefully lost in the short sulky tantrums of this thread.

 

[MrFox]

Major Nelson was asked about the EU ruling last year about reselling licenses. He answered that they were not aware of that, and that he's not a lawyer anyway (basically evaded the question).

However, there's a good summary on gamasutra, from a lawyer point of view:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/173538/

It's not simple

 

[temesgen]

Major Nelson was asked about the EU ruling last year about reselling licenses. He answered that they were not aware of that, and that he's not a lawyer anyway (basically evaded the question).

However, there's a good summary on gamasutra, from a lawyer point of view:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/173538/

It's not simple

Its a good point and possibly played into their decision to reverse things.

 

[zupallinere]

Major Nelson was asked about the EU ruling last year about reselling licenses. He answered that they were not aware of that, and that he's not a lawyer anyway (basically evaded the question).

Jebus Why would the Main PR want to know anything about the legalities in the that small little market known as the EU ?

 

[3dilettante]

Even if he were an avid follower of EU court procedings, would it be smart to make statements on the record that could come back to haunt the legal department?

 

[zupallinere]

Even if he were an avid follower of EU court procedings, would it be smart to make statements on the record that could come back to haunt the legal department?

Absolutely. He just would not be at any official meeting where such things are discussed so no record ... Nobody can prove that he read up such things or spoke to someone off the record... Can't be proved so he is legally telling the truth. The same could be said if somebody asked him if there "family share" was a demo. He can legally say no it's not a demo.

 

[ERP]

Doesn't look like anything of great value was lost.

I really wish people would stop referring to a pastebin article as if it's fact just because it supports their viewpoint.
While the pastebin itself is an interesting read, there is no way to know who wrote it, or how accurate it is.

 

[zupallinere]

I'm STILL not seeing the value add that MS was suggesting.

- No disk swapping ... well It will take me awhile to amass enough games to get to the point that becomes inconvenient when dealing with a new console with no BC. +.01
- Download at a friends house and play with your account... Don't they already do this for DD ? In case I forget the disc it has some modicum of value since I am absent minded at times. +.3
- Family sharing ... well we don't really know do we and they don't really have to tell you till you actually buy the thing Actually it's better than your average demo so +1
- Give/sell a 30 day old friend your copy.... I ... guess that is cool ... of course every console allows you to do this. -1

I'm sorry what am I missing here ... how is this a car rather than a faster horse ?

I lose the ability to sell a used game at a fair market value ( well whatever I can get for it ) for the above. If there was something there that added substantial value then great. The next time they want to get rid of used discs it will have to be for a better reason. Not being called an evil thief for selling used games doesn't count as a value add

 

[function]

I really wish people would stop referring to a pastebin article as if it's fact just because it supports their viewpoint.
While the pastebin itself is an interesting read, there is no way to know who wrote it, or how accurate it is.

CBoat has - apparently - confirmed this on NeoGaf, for whatever that's worth. If true it might explain why MS refused to give all the details on the family share thing. Publisher agreed restrictions on shares might have been the only way to get them to go along with it...?

Or maybe it was exactly what MS implied it was - free unlimited sharing amongst any ten people at a time that you chose, with no restrictions on swapping people in and out. Gaming forums would have become shifting networks of friends allowing potentially scores of people to play one copy of a game in a matter of weeks or even days.

You could probably write a phone app to facilitate bookings and friends list management between hundreds or thousands of people. The scope for abuse would be staggering!