Just to add on to that, neither are online passes.
XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You
- Thread starter mrcorbo
- Start date
- Status
Just to add on to that, neither are online passes.
MS wants us to accept that in the future we don't own anything and everything we think we own will be stored in the clouds. Basically does the next next generation of console become an advance version of lag free OnLive where not even the hardware is ours, maybe just an app running on our TVs?
Throw away your retro collections, and put all your belongings in the clouds.
I really hope the consumer doesn't accept those terms
Throw away your retro collections, and put all your belongings in the clouds.
I really hope the consumer doesn't accept those terms
That's going to be true from everyone eventually. MS just put the jumps on and are getting the majority of flak. the real issue is the 24 hour check-in. You don't need this on other download content and that's why people are up in arms. But at the same time, everyone's devices are typically connected to the net 24/7 checking for updates and social feeds, so in real terms, once you get over the requirement, the experience likely won't be much different to what most people are used to.
I agree with you Shift, in practice its probably not going to effect the majority of consumers, and at a technical level a fine compromise. The issue is that fringe users are so vehemently against it, it creates these perception problems as well as inciting relentless effort to defeat their drm measures and deny access to their services. They better be prepared for that.
Hopefully they'll take my advice, and allow override of the 24 hour check for physically purchased media by inserting the disk; but only let digital downloads get the convenience features like being part of your shared library, etc. While obviously not perfect, and I get how badly they want and the beauty of consistency regardless of how it was obtained, it at least makes it a consumer choice, rather than deciding for them. Their decision to support disks at all is an olive branch to retailers and gimping what they would be selling vs digital download would piss them off. But at the same time, it couldn't be any worse than the backlash they are getting now from consumers.
And its my belief that Microsofts combination of digital conveniences and app store pricing would get consumers to naturally migrate to the all digital, drm laden future they so desire. And for those who don't want change, you offer them disks, and not 360's... Lol!
Hopefully they'll take my advice, and allow override of the 24 hour check for physically purchased media by inserting the disk; but only let digital downloads get the convenience features like being part of your shared library, etc. While obviously not perfect, and I get how badly they want and the beauty of consistency regardless of how it was obtained, it at least makes it a consumer choice, rather than deciding for them. Their decision to support disks at all is an olive branch to retailers and gimping what they would be selling vs digital download would piss them off. But at the same time, it couldn't be any worse than the backlash they are getting now from consumers.
And its my belief that Microsofts combination of digital conveniences and app store pricing would get consumers to naturally migrate to the all digital, drm laden future they so desire. And for those who don't want change, you offer them disks, and not 360's... Lol!
On the case of game sharing, I think we totally forgot the PS4 can allow people to remote play your games without even downloading your game. 
Of course you'll have to turn your system on and have somebody else control it, but it's doable, and they'll earn your trophies for you!
Of course you'll have to turn your system on and have somebody else control it, but it's doable, and they'll earn your trophies for you!
Last edited by a moderator:
Shifty, if I understood you, that will eventually become the trend, are we expected to just accept it?
Buy something, and not own anything. If you have an hobby for collections, or even if you want to sale your collection 20 years later.
They better be damn sure they can keep it up without close to no downtimes, because there will always be people that just newly bought or just plugged in their xbox one after disconnecting it for 24 hours+ that will get screwed whenever they shut it down for any considerable amount of time.
Also don't forget that with all the negative publicity, it'll probably be a beacon just waiting for DDoS attacks.
That's how it is in many areas of the digital economy. You "buy it", but technically you've only licensed it.
But that's almost certain to change - a high-profile EU case seems to indicate that a '99 year licence' is actually a purchase, no matter how much someone tries to pretend that it's a rental. As such, the consumer should be able to resell the product.
Companies obviously don't want to allow second hand sales, but it seems likely that they will instead need to 'find a way'.
In the US/rest of the world, it's less clear.
Thats the short term problem. The long term problem is when they shut it down and every single xb one game in the world stops working and are ms hoping that by that time everyone will have moved on to their newest console and the backlash will be small.
see : http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=63825
This idea that just because it says so in a text file or on a screen and it becomes fact needs to be challenged in court by either a government or a consumer rights group
on a related note consumers have had a small victory in Australia
from the Bioshock Infinite eula :
Lets have 3 cheers for Austrialia....
Well thats a viewpoint that 80% of b3d readers dont agree with
see : http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=63825
This idea that just because it says so in a text file or on a screen and it becomes fact needs to be challenged in court by either a government or a consumer rights group
on a related note consumers have had a small victory in Australia
from the Bioshock Infinite eula :
Lets have 3 cheers for Austrialia....
Yes. That's the way the market/world works. Things change and sometimes (often) there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can choose not to partake, but you can't force anyone to sell games outright if they choose to develop and release in a different manner to that you like.
I'm just about to release my first Android app, and I've been reading up about the keys the apps are signed to. Google require that any app released to the Google Play store has a key valid to 2033as a minimum. That means of the apps you download, a great many will possibly stop working after 2033 if the devs set this minimum time limit and no longer maintain them or rerelease with an updated key. The software you bought for your Android device has an unpublished expiration date. But that doesn't matter because in 20 years time you'll be using new software that's better on new devices.
As everything physical wears out and is replaced, it's not a far stretch to accept that with digital downloads even if it's not technically true. The advance of technology means after xxx years, old stuff rarely matters. For a tiny exception like collectors, it'll mean the end of their collecting days. Okay, that's life, go take up a different hobby.
Resisting this is futile. It's like the Saboteurs resisting automated factories as doing them out of work. The change in technology did do them out of work, but the world rebalanced and things carried on, just different.
That is also a valid point.
Pretending that the servers were shutdown, and they managed to kill the web checking for playing the games your already own.
The problem is that the HDD are again proprietary (no backup allowed), if the HDD fails, we will lose everything.
@Shifty, thank you for your explanation!
Pretending that the servers were shutdown, and they managed to kill the web checking for playing the games your already own.
The problem is that the HDD are again proprietary (no backup allowed), if the HDD fails, we will lose everything.
@Shifty, thank you for your explanation!
Last edited by a moderator:
Unless they never shut it down and xbox two simply runs all the new games.
Like I said, people are already buying download content with time limits they know nothing about. And people have bought software for decades that has been consigned to the hsitory books. When was the last time you accessed you spreadsheet for Sinclair Spectrum, for example? This probably can't be discussed more in depth on this forum because at the root is a fundamental philosophical question about what ownership is and if it even exists. In terms of the remit of this forum, suffice to say software will probably end as a finite package and be replaced something from the cloud, perhaps a subscription based on-demand service.
I can well imagine a future where every game is on servers ready to be streamed, including all your back library (Nintendo has shown there's easy-money in reselling people their old content for new machines). We're halfway there already with other content like TV episodes on Netflix so you don't need to buy boxsets. Some people will disagree with the principle of this, and if they manage to exert enough market pressure they may manage to keep hard copies alive, but IMO I doubt it. In 20+ years, all hardware will be moot and everything will stream. Current arguments are just the norm for interim transitions periods but don't offer enough reason to resist the benefits of such a change.
People are worried about silly things.
Look its quite simple. Lets say MS sells 100m xbox one's in the next 8 years. About 20 million more than xbox 360s in the same time frame.
Well that's peak xbox one . After that usage will only go down due to a new system correct ? So in 8 years you will need the most servers your ever going to need for xbox one duties. But we are also 8 years in the future and the servers then will be many more times powerful than they are now.
Mean while each year after peak xbox one the servers become more powerful and so your going to need less and less of them for both reasons.
so how long do you need the games to last ? 8 years? 16 ? 30 ? Each year costs for ms will go down so it will of course depend on demand if no one is playing anymore in year 12 ms may just cut the server.
Then there is forward compatibility to think about. As discussed here vms should allow them better forwards compatibility . So ms can continue running these games on the xbox two and thus extend the life cycle even longer.
On the flip side while ms closed xbox servers a few years ago , sony has no backwards compatibility for ps3 titles on the ps4. How long will sony keep that content up ? How about xbox live arcade stuff ? That is more worrisome cause the dead line is much sooner for it. But of course we don't say negative sony stuff anymore , the focus is only on negative xbox stuff. Look at patsu's hand waving of sony no having a way to convert your psp games to ps go games for north America one of the biggest gaming markets out there. Then sony wants to charge you using gakki for playing games you already own on disc. But its okay , lets talk about something negative about ms that could be 10 years or 20 years or 50 years in the future instead of what happening now.
dragonelite
Veteran
Not sure if allowed to mention this.
But i wouldn't be surprised if they either cracked X1 or have some form of emulator of the X1 in 7~10 years.
why xbox two in 8 years with AMD's 2022 low power cpu and lots of them with a new amd graphics chip with esram and boom your able to play all xbox one games on xbox two.
Look going digital is future ......if your not ready for a digital future just yet OK by a wii u or a PS 4 ......if you are ready to jump in then buy a Xbox one .
Yes in 10 years you may lose all your games you brought for your Xbox one but how many people really collect games and old machines for the love of there hobby on here .
I do I own two arcade machines .....chase HQ and a neogeo arcade cabnet ....plus untold old machines and boxed games .....I collect you see very rarely do I play any of my collection though .
You no what I think in the future people will still want to keep alive old code infact there collect old game code like I collect physical copies of game code today.
Now if my hunch is right there will be a way to play old code designed for a Xbox one in the future because enthusiasts will find away to keep these things alive ......just like today old steam engines are kept alive by enthusiasts and collectors
Yes in 10 years you may lose all your games you brought for your Xbox one but how many people really collect games and old machines for the love of there hobby on here .
I do I own two arcade machines .....chase HQ and a neogeo arcade cabnet ....plus untold old machines and boxed games .....I collect you see very rarely do I play any of my collection though .
You no what I think in the future people will still want to keep alive old code infact there collect old game code like I collect physical copies of game code today.
Now if my hunch is right there will be a way to play old code designed for a Xbox one in the future because enthusiasts will find away to keep these things alive ......just like today old steam engines are kept alive by enthusiasts and collectors
dragonelite
Veteran
It was more for the fear of Microsoft shutting down servers.
And now that the world transitioning into a more digital world.
I think consumers of digital goods will get more and more protection.
The drm is not an issues i have more problems with kinect..
For my part they could check in every 30 min i wont notice it.
Wondering if they will use smartglasses to check in with xbox if internet is down and mobile network is still up.
- Status
