Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[powdercore]

It is for decoding, it says it in the patch notes, it allows Netflix(etc) UHD streaming.
There is a huge difference between decoding and encoding.
The slide could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

No one has yet told me what level of hardware is required to do h265 software decoding though, as the Windows 10 PC can be anything from cheap tablet up. They all have h254 hardware decode.
Maybe they have their own custom codec, that leverages some of the h264 hardware?

I'm not even ruling out that it may be able to do encoding, I'm just not sure how suitable it would be for both ends of the streaming functionality. Especially as it's even restricted to home networks which gives a lot more headroom.

It said "video streaming apps", which doesn't necessarily mean decoding only. It provides Netflix as an example of a video streaming apps. Twitch is also a video streaming apps, and it also allows the XB1 to broadcast games while playing. Broadcasting means encoding.

 

[Betanumerical]

To all the people who think that there is some level of hardware acceleration could you guys kindly point out where on the motherboard this exists ? And why Microsoft have included some expensive part just for video streaming years into the products life ?.

 

[Starx]

Xbox One operating system versions and system updates

10-bit HD High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) platform support added

10-bit HD HEVC enables video streaming apps, like NetFlix, to use lower bandwidth to deliver HD quality video streams. 10-bit Ultra color increases the video color precision from 8-bits to 10-bits - with 8-bits you only get 16 million colors, but with 10-bit Ultra color precision you get 1 billion life-like colors that makes your video more vibrant.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/system/system-update-operating-system

 

[Silent_Buddha]

To all the people who think that there is some level of hardware acceleration could you guys kindly point out where on the motherboard this exists ? And why Microsoft have included some expensive part just for video streaming years into the products life ?.

Noone is saying whether there is or isn't.

But...

If the AMD slide is true then there must be some form of hardware assisted H.265 encoding as it would be impossible to encode H.265 via CPU alone or via GPU compute while playing a game.

If the AMD slide is false then all is as it should be.

That is the basis of all the conjecture at the moment.

The most plausible explanation is that the AMD slide is wrong. But, what if it isn't? And that's what the whole discussion has revolved around.

IMO, I don't see why Microsoft would need H.265 to stream 1080p content to PCs from the XBO. Presumably bandwidth isn't going to be a huge issue in most people's homes and that's the main benefit of H.265 over H.264.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We have a Linkedin profile saying that he worked on HEVC codec for the XB1 and Windows anywhere between 2012 and today.

Decoding. HEVC for Windows can't guarantee the presence of HEVC hardware.

Then Engadget had a tour saying that MS added on circuits for parallel encoding/decoding of two HD streams.

h.264 as everyone was using. Why would Ms want to add dual HEVC decoding where HEVC is mostly for lower bandwidth? There's plenty of BW on the connections XB1 is using.

Then AMD has a presentation slide showing the Xbox One can stream games to the PC using HEVC.

Bug.

And finally today we have the XB1 software update changelog showing 10-bit HEVC codec was added.

For decoding.
Without the AMD slide, everything points to h.264 being used in hardware as existed at the time, HEVC being implemented now in software for services that want it. The AMD slide is a piece that doesn't fit with the rest of the puzzle. I'm more inclined to throw it out than try and make all the other pieces fit it.

 

[TheWretched]

What is the encoder used for? Is it "just" for in-house streaming? If so, then they could use MPEG2 for all I care, at least assuming your LAN is up to the task. A Gigabit LAN can easily transport ten times as much data as BluRay can. Even MPEG2 at those data rates is good enough. If we're talking over the internet (as in what Sony can do with Remote and Share Play), then H265 could make a difference with upload on asymmetric broadband being heavily upload starved. Could benefit Twitch etc. as well.

 

[BRiT]

To all the people who think that there is some level of hardware acceleration could you guys kindly point out where on the motherboard this exists ? And why Microsoft have included some expensive part just for video streaming years into the products life ?.

It's not on the motherboard it's in the game controllers, why else would they have firmware updates for controllers?

 

[iroboto]

What is the encoder used for? Is it "just" for in-house streaming? If so, then they could use MPEG2 for all I care, at least assuming your LAN is up to the task. A Gigabit LAN can easily transport ten times as much data as BluRay can. Even MPEG2 at those data rates is good enough. If we're talking over the internet (as in what Sony can do with Remote and Share Play), then H265 could make a difference with upload on asymmetric broadband being heavily upload starved. Could benefit Twitch etc. as well.

Twitch seems ideal for encoding. YouTube streaming would be along the same lines as well if it goes that way. I can't think of much more, when things are latency sensitive I don't see how heavy compression and decompression will help.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

To all the people who think that there is some level of hardware acceleration could you guys kindly point out where on the motherboard this exists ? And why Microsoft have included some expensive part just for video streaming years into the products life ?.

If there is hardware acceleration it would be in the same place it's been for years: the GPU.

 

[fehu]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, and pure speculation anyway
If they planned from the start to leverage something from the cloud, isn't possible that they included some good decompression hardware too?

 

[Betanumerical]

If there is hardware acceleration it would be in the same place it's been for years: the GPU.

And it's been kept quite all this time for what reason again this is a pretty impressive feature it should have been in a number of presentations by now!

I don't know if it has been mentioned, and pure speculation anyway
If they planned from the start to leverage something from the cloud, isn't possible that they included some good decompression hardware too?

We already know a lot about the decompression hardware thanks to vgleaks.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, and pure speculation anyway
If they planned from the start to leverage something from the cloud, isn't possible that they included some good decompression hardware too?

Yep. Hence they included h.264 (de)compression hardware, as was the only working, finalised standard when XB1 was designed, as well as LZ compression hardware.

 

[dobwal]

And the drama continues.

Secret Sauce FTW!!! Or is this just a software based solution!!!

When they say streaming to PC to the Xbox is there anything to indicate that the statement refers to game streaming? Because unless HEVC is explicitly linked to remote gaming, there is no clear indication that the XBOX One has the necessary hardware. The patch notes only refer to streaming apps.

The full patch notes are listed below:

OS version: 6.2.12998.0 (xb_rel_1506.150601-2200) fre

Release date

6/5/2015

New or updated features

Multiplayer & Party Chat updates

• Fix to address multiplayer issues across a few titles.
• Made some small updates to the Party app to help team better understand issues reported by the community.

Game Bundles update

• Fixed an issue where certain type of disc-based bundled games would not properly install

10-bit HD High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) platform support added

• 10-bit HD HEVC enables video streaming apps, like NetFlix, to use lower bandwidth to deliver HD quality video streams. 10-bit Ultra color increases the video color precision from 8-bits to 10-bits – with 8-bits you only get 16 million colors, but with 10-bit Ultra color precision you get 1 billion life-like colors that makes your video more vibrant.

The patch includes several changes that were part of the preview version over the past couple of weeks, with the addition of the new video codec. New features and updates are likely to follow during or after E3 later this month.

Microsoft recently mentioned that there will be a few surprises at E3 about the Xbox One’s system software, and several new game announcements.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/xbox-update-fix...bit-codec-patch-notes-detailed/#ixzz3cJ47ohKS

 

[Shifty Geezer]

When they say streaming to PC to the Xbox is there anything to indicate that the statement refers to game streaming?

Nope. But what other use is there for it? Media is already compressed. Short of steaming media from console to mobile-connected PC, recompressing in HEVC makes little sense. The image also shows what I guess is the XB1 storefront on two PCs (implied desktop and laptop). Can anyone confirm that?

 

[Jay]

A couple good uses would be if they implement DVR functionality, outside lan game streaming.
Both would be better of using h265. Not saying essential, just better.

 

[dobwal]

Nope. But what other use is there for it? Media is already compressed. Short of steaming media from console to mobile-connected PC, recompressing in HEVC makes little sense. The image also shows what I guess is the XB1 storefront on two PCs (implied desktop and laptop). Can anyone confirm that?

Maybe they threw it in because they could. LOL. Gary Sullivan is a lead engineer at MS.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

And it's been kept quite all this time for what reason again this is a pretty impressive feature it should have been in a number of presentations by now!

Who knows. The same asinine reasons AMD have only just confirmed PS4'd DSP is based on TrueAudio? Why wait to reveal that?

 

[function]

Probably AMD were NDA'd up to their bollocks regarding strangely obvious aspects of some of their console designs.

TrueAudio is inferior to MS's custom audio processing solution (probably largely wasted on the underutilised Kinect) so I can understand why Sony told them to shut up until Kinect was a 3rd division accessory.

 

[liquidboy]

... it waited to announce anything because ... Win10 timeframe !!

 

[iroboto]

My best bet, for waiting to announce (in a general sense), is that if the feature isn't up to snuff, don't announce it -- else be burned at the stake like XBO launch