Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Love_In_Rio, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. Rikimaru

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    But secret sauce...
     
  2. AlBran

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    It's hidden in the letters used on that slide.
     
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  3. iroboto

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    #8223 iroboto, Jun 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
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  4. fehu

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    What about just an half baked hvec solution?
     
  5. Shifty Geezer

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    PS2 set precedent. The PS2+ added DVD-RW playing or somesuch, and a couple other (subtle, hardly used) things IIRC. You also get features dropped between hardware revisions. If 4k streaming is important, it'd be folly to shun it for the sake of the goodwill of existing, paid-up owners. Plus it's a far less significant difference than the poor folk who buy a mobile device only for the new, improved version to be announced the following week! Or even cars which have models with new features, exactly as per your 201x model reference. The older models get sold cheaper to clear stock.
     
  6. AlBran

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    We also saw that happen last gen with the HDMI port on 360. PS3 even removed certain format playback at some point. :p 360E removed the optical port.:rolleyes:

    So... PS4K SKU? Xbox One Fourk?
     
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  7. Rikimaru

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  8. liquidboy

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    we've known since launch that the console can handle 4K, just that it wasn't there (like many other things) !

    BTW it does sound like DECODE only in the article ....

    So regardless if it's in GPU accelerated Shader code, or Fixed Function HW or reprogrammed HW or whatever .. We'll find out soon ...

    This is the quote from a launch article many years ago now, and the part about "paralle circuit not part of CPU/GPU is interesting (its an add on) "

    [​IMG]

    ref (may 21st 2013)
     
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  9. Silent_Buddha

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    Yes, but if it had an incomplete implementation for HEVC assisted encode/decode they potentially wouldn't want to say anything.

    It isn't uncommon for partial implementations based on early milestones to end up in products. Take for example the early 802.11n implementations which weren't based on the full or final specifications as those weren't finalized when the products were released. Hence they weren't true 802.11n devices with little to no interoperability between devices from different manufacturer's.

    Also remember that some of those 802.11n early implementations based on a non-finalized 802.11n spec were released up to 2 years before the standard was finalized.

    While unlikely and implausible, it is possible that Microsoft has some blocks in there that support hardware assistance of parts of the H.265 standard. Even a year prior to the first standard becoming finalized some of the standard was likely relatively set. And MS/AMD may have speculated on which parts were likely to become "set" versus discarded or changed.

    How closely it matches up with the first finalized standard for h.265 is something we'd never know (assuming it exists in XBO in the first place). And some of it may never get used if it didn't end up in the final specifications for the standard.

    Basically, yes, it is unlikely. But we're trying to reconcile the AMD slide claiming h.265 encoding on the XBO with the fact that it isn't possible without some form of hardware assist.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  10. BRiT

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    So you figure it only talks about decode despite explicitly mentioning streams being encoded?
     
  11. hesido

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    Will we ever have as detailed breakdowns as this one:
    https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~milom/cis501-Fall08/papers/xbox-system.pdf

    for the current gen? I remember there were even meatier disclosures for Xenos than the PDF linked, couldn't find it right away though. Both consoles launched quite a while ago and I don't understand the need for strict NDA's. Or, are the NDA's because this time both consoles have very comparable architectures?
     
  12. iroboto

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    My understanding for the NDAs is to just keep it out of the news in case in the future there is news they don't want finalized information out there. It is a way for them to work in secrecy without disturbing their business.
     
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  13. bgroovy

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    Based on everything we know it is far more likely the AMD slide was wrong than it is there is secret HEVC encoding capabilities hidden in the Xbox One. Perhaps AMD has inadvertently referred to a planned Xbox Cloud gaming service that will use HEVC to stream games.
     
  14. DSoup

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    As you say this happens a lot in comms, this has happened a fair bit with a variety of 802.xx standards and before that it was common for analogue modems to include draft specifications for future or variant standards like 14.4k HST, 28k, 56k which all appeared in shipping products a year or more than the standards being finalised.

    The first stage ITU approval for HEVC was put forward in January 2013 and agreed in April 2013 and my recollection was, at that stage, no significant changes had been made to the specification some time. Subsequent (and significant) extensions have since been filed and these could be more critical for supporting the standard as it may actually be widely used in broadcast media but for the purpose of having a solid streaming solution (Xbox One -> PC), they very likely had time to get silicon ready for production from day one. Because Microsoft have control over the interoperability (software on Xbox, software in Windows), adherence to standards is really a luxury and not essential to the goal.
     
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  15. turkey

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    Xbox to pc i would assume can be any hybrid codec they put together as they control both ends, having some of it hw offloadable would be required for the console to stream games. Ie does it really need to be standards compliant?

    For Netflix they could just make the app run under game os allowing full GPU usage so even if they dont have full standards compliant hardware they could do it?
     
  16. Rikimaru

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    h264 streams. And PR wording.
     
  17. powdercore

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    I am not sure if this is PR wording. I am convinced the XB1 has some form of hardware accelerated HEVC decoding and/or encoding. For the XB1 to stream a game to the PC via HEVC would imply some form of encoding. To do real-time encoding with the Jaguar CPUs don't make sense, and using the GPU for encoding would severely impact their game graphics.

    We have a Linkedin profile saying that he worked on HEVC codec for the XB1 and Windows anywhere between 2012 and today. Then Engadget had a tour saying that MS added on circuits for parallel encoding/decoding of two HD streams. Then AMD has a presentation slide showing the Xbox One can stream games to the PC using HEVC. And finally today we have the XB1 software update changelog showing 10-bit HEVC codec was added.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. iroboto

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    The patch would be for decoding though right? We still don't know about encoding which is really the ???
     
  19. powdercore

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    Yes, it could be for decoding. That doesn't make sense though if AMD slide is correct since streaming from XB to PC using HEVC would imply encoding. How would it do that? Either the XB has some form of hardware accelerated realtime encoding or the slide is wrong.
     
  20. Jay

    Jay
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    It is for decoding, it says it in the patch notes, it allows Netflix(etc) UHD streaming.
    There is a huge difference between decoding and encoding.
    The slide could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

    No one has yet told me what level of hardware is required to do h265 software decoding though, as the Windows 10 PC can be anything from cheap tablet up. They all have h254 hardware decode.
    Maybe they have their own custom codec, that leverages some of the h264 hardware?

    I'm not even ruling out that it may be able to do encoding, I'm just not sure how suitable it would be for both ends of the streaming functionality. Especially as it's even restricted to home networks which gives a lot more headroom.

    Edit:
    Just found this so maybe decoding will not be a problem.
    https://software.intel.com/en-us/ar...coder-on-intel-atom-processor-based-platforms
     
    #8240 Jay, Jun 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
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