Xbox One: DirectX 11.1+ AMD GPU , PS4: DirectX 11.2+ AMD GPU what's the difference?

[ERP]

In this context, it's describing a hardware feature set, with nothing to do with the software stack.
The difficulty here is understanding the difference between the API version number and the DX hardware level.
For example older cards support DX11 but with a DX9 hardware level, or more commonly DX11.1 but with hardware level DX11_0.

Personally I wouldn't read too much into the original DX11.X+ comments, they are made by different people,in different contexts.

 

[Jwm]

Are swap chains (GPU Overlay) new to 11.2? It is something we have seen from leaks that X1 will be doing, so if it is new to 11.2 that would be a further clue?

 

[Shortbread]

Ms owns the dx11 specification and roadmap. Do you not think it's possible for them to incorporate much of that in their own hardware.

So I don't get popped by Shifty again, I will make sure I don't go off topic again.

Anyhow, if we go purely off what AMD has stated in recent months, there is no denying PS4 has AMD newest designs. Then the question still remains about the XB1 GPU being Dx 1.2 compliant...

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...a-cut-down-version-of-sonys-playstation-4-apu

Taylor told The INQUIRER that the AMD branded APU chip will not have the same number of cores or the same computing capability as Sony's part.

He said, "Everything that Sony has shared in that single chip is AMD [intellectual property], but we have not built an APU quite like that for anyone else in the market. It is by far the most powerful APU we have built to date, it leverages [intellectual property] that you will find in our A-series APUs later this year, our new generation of APUs but none that will quite be to that level of sheer number of cores, sheer number of teraflops."

AMD is scheduled to launch its third generation APUs this year, but what is interesting is that the firm can effectively take part of a consumer chip and customise it for customers such as Sony.

Taylor said that this is all part of AMD's "flexible system on chip strategy", but what the upcoming A-series parts will show is just how much work Sony put into the chip that is found in the Playstation 4.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't understand why this thread was reopened. As far as anyone can tell the hardware level support for directx on both consoles are the same, based on the scant information on PRT that AMD has provided. And we're trying to determine if tiled resources are supported tier1 or tier2 without knowing what those tiers mean. I don't understand why that information is not readily available from Microsoft, or explained by AMD since they reference it in their press statement. The whole thing seems pointlessly cryptic. Best guess in this thread was tier2 as hardware level and tier1 as software level, but Dave seemed to hint there was more than that without explaining.

 

[Jwm]

I don't understand why this thread was reopened. As far as anyone can tell the hardware level support for directx on both consoles are the same, based on the scant information on PRT that AMD has provided. And we're trying to determine if tiled resources are supported tier1 or tier2 without knowing what those tiers mean. I don't understand why that information is not readily available from Microsoft, or explained by AMD since they reference it in their press statement. The whole thing seems pointlessly cryptic. Best guess in this thread was tier2 as hardware level and tier1 as software level, but Dave seemed to hint there was more than that without explaining.

Seems to me they both support it, based on vgleaks info, etc.

My tinfoil hat theory is that just that X1 has some bits that are more elegant for these and other features, while PS4 has more brute power but maybe takes more power to do same work. No special sauce for either party, just different methods for hitting same marks.

 

[liolio]

I don't understand why this thread was reopened. As far as anyone can tell the hardware level support for directx on both consoles are the same, based on the scant information on PRT that AMD has provided. And we're trying to determine if tiled resources are supported tier1 or tier2 without knowing what those tiers mean. I don't understand why that information is not readily available from Microsoft, or explained by AMD since they reference it in their press statement. The whole thing seems pointlessly cryptic. Best guess in this thread was tier2 as hardware level and tier1 as software level, but Dave seemed to hint there was more than that without explaining.

NDA

I would have hoped for MSFT to be even more transparent at Hotchips, or actually I hope they continue to release information, geeks like to know what a system is about (even though they might misunderstand it), the same geeks are usually early adopters.
I don't remember which MSFT exec had those bitter words wrt Sony hardware and how all the efforts they put into the hardware don't translate in numbers easily grasps by the audience at large, well I think that bitterness is useless they claim they are listening to their costumers (and their actions reflect that) I think they should continue to release technical information even if it is not bigger numbers than the competition, they put them selves in a situation where they have to be as transparent as they can.

They put all those efforts into the chips for a reason, they have to make it clearer why they did this and not that, hint at how the hardware could be used, etc. aka trnaform the simulation and the work they put into the system into PR, even a PR that may not reach every one.
Whatever Sony did (and what it is going to costs them), they can't change it, they have to sell what they have. For me a good disclosure of the hardware capabilities if people are asking for it (or in its absence are spreading FUD...) is necessary at this point (looking at the unveiling, the multiples 180, etc.).

 

[Cranky]

So I don't get popped by Shifty again, I will make sure I don't go off topic again.

Anyhow, if we go purely off what AMD has stated in recent months, there is no denying PS4 has AMD newest designs. Then the question still remains about the XB1 GPU being Dx 1.2 compliant...

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...a-cut-down-version-of-sonys-playstation-4-apu

There is absolutely no question that xb1 is 11.2 compliant. MS stated that with no uncertainty in June. In fact, only xb1 and win8.1 machines are 11.2 compliant

 

[eVolvE]

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalystWIN8-1PreviewDriver.aspx

Read the release notes...

I should've checked this myself, I guess. Thanks anyway.

 

[Scott_Arm]

NDA

I would have hoped for MSFT to be even more transparent at Hotchips, or actually I hope they continue to release information, geeks like to know what a system is about (even though they might misunderstand it), the same geeks are usually early adopters.
I don't remember which MSFT exec had those bitter words wrt Sony hardware and how all the efforts they put into the hardware don't translate in numbers easily grasps by the audience at large, well I think that bitterness is useless they claim they are listening to their costumers (and their actions reflect that) I think they should continue to release technical information even if it is not bigger numbers than the competition, they put them selves in a situation where they have to be as transparent as they can.

They put all those efforts into the chips for a reason, they have to make it clearer why they did this and not that, hint at how the hardware could be used, etc. aka trnaform the simulation and the work they put into the system into PR, even a PR that may not reach every one.
Whatever Sony did (and what it is going to costs them), they can't change it, they have to sell what they have. For me a good disclosure of the hardware capabilities if people are asking for it (or in its absence are spreading FUD...) is necessary at this point (looking at the unveiling, the multiples 180, etc.).

Surely explaining what constitutes that various tiers of tiled resources for Directx 11.2 compliance is not under NDA. I can understand keeping the implementations for Xbox One and PS4 under wraps. I mean, it's kind of dumb to come out and say, "Our GPUs are tier 2 hardware ... but I can't tell you what tier 2 is."

 

[blakjedi]

Yes. This is very weird vortex of information coming from Sony vs AMD vs MS. Going from left to right from most open to most restrictive. I wish MS would just bust open the books and do a show and tell.

 

[blakjedi]

So I don't get popped by Shifty again, I will make sure I don't go off topic again.

Anyhow, if we go purely off what AMD has stated in recent months, there is no denying PS4 has AMD newest designs. Then the question still remains about the XB1 GPU being Dx 1.2 compliant...

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...a-cut-down-version-of-sonys-playstation-4-apu

That is an odd quote because it starts out by claiming everything in the apu is AMD intellectual property. Then ends by stating how much work Sony did with the APU.

 

[Michellstar]

That is an odd quote because it starts out by claiming everything in the apu is AMD intellectual property. Then ends by stating how much work Sony did with the APU.

Don´t look too much on the Inq article, back then XO dind´t existed (to the public) and AMD was just capitalizing on the ps4 reveal

 

[Jay]

Yes. This is very weird vortex of information coming from Sony vs AMD vs MS. Going from left to right from most open to most restrictive. I wish MS would just bust open the books and do a show and tell.

I feel the same way, but then I wonder how much is that actually true, not just perception?
Neither company is going to comment on leaks.
So apart from vgleaks docs, what has Sony told us apart from more compute alu non round etc, and the sound chip primary function, and couple other things.
After hotchips, MS has told us a lot, just happens that a lot of it was leaked which you can't blame them for.

The bits MS haven't told us, are the bits that wasn't leaked and we really was/are curious about, gpu make up etc
Doesn't stop me feeling like you though haha.
Anyway this was OT sorry.

 

[RudeCurve]

Just from a commonsense POV, shouldn't MS know in advance what's going to be in DirectX version XYZ and design a chip that will be able to support the latest version of DirectX when released? Isn't MS the ones who created DirectX and continues to define new versions of it?

 

[XpiderMX]

Just from a commonsense POV, shouldn't MS know in advance what's going to be in DirectX version XYZ and design a chip that will be able to support the latest version of DirectX when released? Isn't MS the ones who created DirectX and continues to define new versions of it?

I guess MS create DX, but they need the support from AMD, nVidia and others.

 

[dumbo11]

Tier-2 is mentioned below, and elsewhere in similar terms:
"Tier-2 tiled resources requirement for tiled array resources with packed mips".
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn284526.aspx

 

[blakjedi]

Just from a commonsense POV, shouldn't MS know in advance what's going to be in DirectX version XYZ and design a chip that will be able to support the latest version of DirectX when released? Isn't MS the ones who created DirectX and continues to define new versions of it?

This was exactly the point I was making to beta.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

dx11 means the direct dx11 feature set, which they obviously support. Yes Durango is clearly more modified, but it seems to me that the modifications for Durango seem more based around the eSRAM and the 'Move Engines' rather then the GPU Core which is what Sony seemed to concentrate on boosting.

I am offended when people like to try and trot out evidence when they have none, on either side.

I see no reason to believe that Durango is Bonaire and the PS4 is Pitcairn anymore then there are reasons to believe the reverse or both being either.

No one has yet to bring credible evidence of either being Bonaire or Pitcairn and until they do its a bit useless with this back and forth.

Think of it another way. Is Microsoft ever going to be unaware of a GPU feature it might incorporate into DirectX? After all, GPU IHVs and Microsoft communicate quite frequently with regards to that as anything implemented in hardware the IHVs will want to try to get into DirectX, and Microsoft has a vested interested in trying to make all DirectX features available on all hardware.

So it isn't as if Microsoft didn't know about the hardware feature as they have a specific DX level that targets it.

It isn't as if the tech would have been too late to include into the SOC as Bonaire was released as a retail product in March 2013, and likely taped out in 2012 sometime. Meaning development of the chip itself likely started in 2010 or 2011.

Now, how likely are Sony going to know about what will be supported in DirectX 11.2 before Microsoft?

Now this isn't to say that PS4 doesn't also support Tier 2 PRT and any other associated Tier 2 hardware features. Only that it's highly likely that Xbox One does.

And of course, there's always the chance that Tier 2 PRT was specifically implemented due to Microsoft's work on Xbox One. There is, apparently, basically only 1 hardware chip in a retail product that supports it. One that just coincidentally shares similar unit counts to the GPU in Xbox One. If that is the case, then AMD may or may not have been at liberty to offer that to Sony as a GPU building block prior to the launch of Bonaire.

Again, to make it clear. I am NOT stating that PS4 does not have it. This is purely speculation based on available information, of which there isn't a whole hell of a lot.

Regards,
SB

 

[mosen]

I guess MS create DX, but they need the support from AMD, nVidia and others.

But I think this is a bilateral issue.

 

[Shortbread]

Both systems are DX 11.2 compliance, but how this article is worded, PS4 (i.e. the other console) is definitely hardware capable. So a wash in my opinion...

http://www.videogamer.com/news/directx_11_2_coming_to_xbox_one_and_windows_8_1.html

ORIGINAL STORY: Microsoft has unveiled DirectX 11.2, an updated version of its existing graphics technology that introduces "a host of new features to improve performance" in games and graphics apps.

DirectX 11.2's headline feature is the addition of 'Tiled Resources', an advanced graphics technology that lets developers pull hi-res assets into a scene dynamically without overloading the graphics card. Essentially, the tech ensures that textures don't appear blurred or fuzzy when viewed close up.

UPDATE: This article initially stated that DirectX 11.2 is an "exclusive to Xbox One & Windows 8.1". However, it has since been brought to our attention that the technology may also be available on other next-gen consoles.